The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[Orioles1954]

What an absolutely horrible name! "Let's Go Guards!"....just rolls of the tongue. It sounds like some terrible USFL or Arena League team. If I were fans of the former Indians, I would either give up baseball or find a new team.

[bdk1976]

Are they competing for worst franchise nickname? If so they are now winning by a margin that puts Secretariat to shame.

[packs]

I don't mind a name change but Guardians sounds like a fake movie team name. Cleveland had two great names before the Indians. What was wrong with the Spiders or the Naps?

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't mind a name change but Guardians sounds like a fake movie team name. Cleveland had two great names before the Indians. What was wrong with the Spiders or the Naps?

Yes, agree.

[Seven]

Sounds like an XFL Franchise. I feel like there were so many other options they could've went with. Could've gone historical and went with the Naps or Spiders.

[darwinbulldog]

Congratulations to Cleveland on moving to a resolution faster than the Capital City American Football Franchise.

[judsonhamlin]

Agree that they should’ve gone with Spiders. Logo of the ball kind of interesting though - kind of like a lefty throwing a fork ball. Rest of the brand other than the “C” logo is junk

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't mind a name change but Guardians sounds like a fake movie team name. Cleveland had two great names before the Indians. What was wrong with the Spiders or the Naps?

Because "Spiders" is offensive to the millions of arachnids who are crushed or murdered by imperialist exterminators every year.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Because "Spiders" is offensive to the millions of arachnids who are crushed or murdered by imperialist exterminators every year.

Many thumbs up emojis

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[timn1]

I think Guardians is just fine.

Why the hell would a team want to name itself the Spiders? It sounds ridiculous on the face of it, plus did you ever take a look at the Cleveland Spiders' record in 1899, their last year - 20-134, plus a nasty multiple-ownership scandal? - That's what you want to celebrate? Just because it's from the era we like to collect doesn't mean it's a good name, or good karma.

Taking potshots at a team's new name is about the easiest and most pointless activity I can think of. Go collect some cards, why dontcha.

Misanthropically,

Tim

[Casey2296]

Awkward name, I'll stick to calling them the "Naps".

[insidethewrapper]

How about the Cleveland Fellers ?

[BCauley]

The reasoning behind it makes sense. I think everybody is just so used to the Indians name though that it'll seem awkward for a bit to call them the Guardians.

[Mutton Chop Yaz]

I'm a Cleveland fan. It's fine. "Indians" needed to go, and any new name would have sounded odd after 106 years with the old one. I would have preferred a historical name, or even "Americans" like my 1914 Cracker Jack Lajoie reads, but they weren't picking the name for my benefit. We'll all be accustomed to "Guardians" in a couple of years.

[Bugsy]

I guess there were IP issues with the name Spiders.

[Hirbonzig]

I predict a section in the bleachers will be called the “Big House” with everyone dressed as bad ass prison guards.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

I guess there were IP issues with the name Spiders.

Or a small bunch of arachnophobes threatened the club

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

How about the Cleveland Fellers ?

As a grade schooler I became an Indian's fan by reading Bob Feller's books. Bob Fellers Strikeout Story and Pitching To Win. If their name had been Guardians I would not have been interested.

Total Pud effort in finding a new moniker.

[gawaintheknight]

Just to clarify: when someone says that white people are racist, it doesn't mean that all white people actively hate minorities or burn crosses or murder people in a black church or fly a Confederate flag. I think that there are two points to be made: one is that white people have prejudices, which they may not even recognize, because everyone does, whatever race they identify as. The difference is that white people have privilege and power that other races don't have, and because white people have privilege and power, their prejudices turn into racism and oppression in a way that's not possible for races that don't have privilege and power.

A classic article about white privilege: https://nationalseedproject.org/Key-...sible-knapsack


The second point that I think is important is that not all racism comes from individual racist acts. There's also structural racism. There are a lot of articles about that - here's one specifically aimed at Christians by a conservative Christian, but useful even if you're not a Christian yourself:

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/...t-wokeness-its

Given that structural racism exists, and that white people benefit from it, we (I'm white) have three options. One is to be happy with our privilege and tell ourselves we deserve it. One is to recognize that it's a bad thing, but not do anything to change it. That lets us feel good about ourselves, because we aren't actively doing anything wrong, but it perpetuates the status quo and the existing structural racism, even if we don't personally feel hostility to minorities. And the last one is to actively work against it.

Incidentally, the National Council of American Indians had this to say about the name change:

https://www.ncai.org/news/articles/2...name-guardians

“With today’s announcement, the Cleveland baseball team has taken another important step forward in healing the harms its former mascot long caused Native people, in particular Native youth,” said NCAI President Fawn Sharp. “We call on the other professional sports teams and thousands of schools across the country that still cling to their antiquated Native ‘themed’ mascots to immediately follow suit. NCAI also looks forward to continuing its work with the Cleveland Guardians to help grow the national movement of respect for Tribal Nations, cultures, and communities, a movement that values, teaches, and validates who Native people are today, what makes us unique, the many important contributions we make to this country, and our rightful place in the diverse mosaic that is America.”

I'd be curious to hear from those of you going to the National what percentage of the dealers and what percentage of the attendees there are white and what percentage are women (excluding those who are just there to keep their boyfriend/husband/son happy)....

Ted Clayton

[judsonhamlin]

At the risk of diving in here, I never understood why the US Army named bases/forts after CSA military figures like Lee, Bragg, Hood and Hill who actively fought and led troops and whose orders caused the deaths of thousands of US Army soldiers. I would not expect the British Army to name one of their bases after James Connolly or Michael Collins, nor would I expect the French to name anything after Marshal Petain.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight

Just to clarify: when someone says that white people are racist, it doesn't mean that all white people actively hate minorities or burn crosses or murder people in a black church or fly a Confederate flag. I think that there are two points to be made: one is that white people have prejudices, which they may not even recognize, because everyone does, whatever race they identify as. The difference is that white people have privilege and power that other races don't have, and because white people have privilege and power, their prejudices turn into racism and oppression in a way that's not possible for races that don't have privilege and power.

A classic article about white privilege: https://nationalseedproject.org/Key-...sible-knapsack


The second point that I think is important is that not all racism comes from individual racist acts. There's also structural racism. There are a lot of articles about that - here's one specifically aimed at Christians by a conservative Christian, but useful even if you're not a Christian yourself:

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/...t-wokeness-its

Given that structural racism exists, and that white people benefit from it, we (I'm white) have three options. One is to be happy with our privilege and tell ourselves we deserve it. One is to recognize that it's a bad thing, but not do anything to change it. That lets us feel good about ourselves, because we aren't actively doing anything wrong, but it perpetuates the status quo and the existing structural racism, even if we don't personally feel hostility to minorities. And the last one is to actively work against it.

Incidentally, the National Council of American Indians had this to say about the name change:

https://www.ncai.org/news/articles/2...name-guardians

“With today’s announcement, the Cleveland baseball team has taken another important step forward in healing the harms its former mascot long caused Native people, in particular Native youth,” said NCAI President Fawn Sharp. “We call on the other professional sports teams and thousands of schools across the country that still cling to their antiquated Native ‘themed’ mascots to immediately follow suit. NCAI also looks forward to continuing its work with the Cleveland Guardians to help grow the national movement of respect for Tribal Nations, cultures, and communities, a movement that values, teaches, and validates who Native people are today, what makes us unique, the many important contributions we make to this country, and our rightful place in the diverse mosaic that is America.”

I'd be curious to hear from those of you going to the National what percentage of the dealers and what percentage of the attendees there are white and what percentage are women (excluding those who are just there to keep their boyfriend/husband/son happy)....

Ted Clayton

It isn't a given, it's an opinion some people have, these articles aren't some sort of definitive gospel. And tell me exactly how I personally am benefiting from this, I must be missing that.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight

Just to clarify: when someone says that white people are racist, it doesn't mean that all white people actively hate minorities or burn crosses or murder people in a black church or fly a Confederate flag. I think that there are two points to be made: one is that white people have prejudices, which they may not even recognize, because everyone does, whatever race they identify as. The difference is that white people have privilege and power that other races don't have, and because white people have privilege and power, their prejudices turn into racism and oppression in a way that's not possible for races that don't have privilege and power.

Really? All 100 million (or however many) white people have privilege and power? Really???? I can introduce you to some poor people in my community (with white skin color) who expose that to be a blatant lie.

Generally speaking, an intelligent black person has privilege and power over a white idiot. A normal black person has power and privilege over a white dwarf. Young, healthy, active people have privilege and power over old, sick people. And so on.

I've seen far, far too many successful people with darker skin and far, far too many failures with lighter skin to buy into your racist nonsense.

Looking at someone, seeing only their race, and from that tidbit of information declaring them privileged and powerful is outright stupid. And that is what this group think mentality is doing - making idiots out of otherwise intelligent people.

You cannot take a hundred million people and ascribe ANY attribute to each and every one of them. It is absurd, and quite obviously racist.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Awkward name, I'll stick to calling them the "Naps".

If calling them "Indians" is offensive to Indians, isn't calling them "Guardians" likewise offensive to guardians?

And calling them "Naps" would be offensive to Frenchmen.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

What an absolutely horrible name! "Let's Go Guards!"....just rolls of the tongue. It sounds like some terrible USFL or Arena League team. If I were fans of the former Indians, I would either give up baseball or find a new team.

yes, it is a terrible name.

[Brian Van Horn]

LOL! Does anyone expect the name of "Guardians" to last? It is though the owner of the Indians added another punchline to "Major League".

[samosa4u]

Guardians? Doesn't sound like a sports team to me! If the word INDIAN offended some people, then they should have called themselves the Cleveland ERIE or Cleveland SENECANS!

[rhettyeakley]

Not a fan! I really thought the "Spiders" was a forgone conclusion.

The "Spiders" would have been a marketing Gold Mine! There are so many different ways to market that name and an image of a spider! So many promotions and the uniforms, logos, etc could have been so cool.

The Guardians is such a weak mascot that I can only guess that was only chosen because they couldn't protect the name Spiders like they wanted to. As mentioned it sounds like a fake name from a bad Disney sports movie.

**That being said, if they had gone with "Cleveland Rocks" or something like that it would have been SO MUCH WORSE! I'm glad they didn't go down that path.

[Casey2296]

At least when the team stinks the fans will have new placard choices...
-

[rhettyeakley]

For those that have watched the TV show Community...

http://starsofthediamond.com/greendale.jpg

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Not a fan! I really thought the "Spiders" was a forgone conclusion.

The "Spiders" would have been a marketing Gold Mine! There are so many different ways to market that name and an image of a spider! So many promotions and the uniforms, logos, etc could have been so cool.

The Guardians is such a weak mascot that I can only guess that was only chosen because they couldn't protect the name Spiders like they wanted to. As mentioned it sounds like a fake name from a bad Disney sports movie.

**That being said, if they had gone with "Cleveland Rocks" or something like that it would have been SO MUCH WORSE! I'm glad they didn't go down that path.

Cleveland Rocks would have been hilarious. Every year the press could lead off spring with "Rocks' Pennant Hopes Sink Like A Stone". Was too similar the Colorado Rockies, though.

[Exhibitman]

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

lmfao

[Exhibitman]

I find it ironic that some people want to cancel "cancel culture".

I just learned that "Guardians" has a local history involving 100 year old statues on the road to the stadium area, and that they tried to find a name with the "dians" so they could maintain the logo style and nod to the old name.

I would still prefer the Spiders...their mascot could be Boris.

https://youtu.be/JWpz2OYf1QU

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Love it!

[Jim65]

Why stop there?

Minnesota Twins is offensive to Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen.
San Francisco Giants is offensive to Gheorghe Muresan and Manute Bol.
Buffalo Bills is offensive to Deblasio, Gates, Clinton and Cosby

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

What an absolutely horrible name! "Let's Go Guards!"....just rolls of the tongue. It sounds like some terrible USFL or Arena League team. If I were fans of the former Indians, I would either give up baseball or find a new team.

They will accept it. The city of Cleveland already is diehard for teams called the Cavaliers and Browns.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Guardians is just short for Guaranteed Indians

[perezfan]

Spiders would've been pretty cool, both in terms of a team mascot/logo, and interesting/artistic Uniform and Cap possibilities.

But to nobody's surprise, they chose a horribly bland name. Can't even imagine an interesting or decent looking logo... maybe a block letter "G" (how exciting!)

Perfect for the current times though... "Guardians" sounds like an Insurance Company Team, Soccer Club, or WNBA franchise, and should not offend anyone. Super safe choice!

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

They will accept it. The city of Cleveland already is diehard for teams called the Cavaliers and Browns.

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

Doubtful as to Paul-- the team was named for him.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Doubtful as to Paul-- the team was named for him.

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

Yep. Like this one.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/kk...tol/index.html

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Yep. Like this one.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/kk...tol/index.html

That would be an excellent analogy........ if Sockalexis had founded a hate group.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Yep. Like this one.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/kk...tol/index.html

Which is worse? To memorialize a KKK member with a bust or parade with them?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

Cancel culture.


I am taking offense at these guys playing baseball!!

[MK]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

You just nailed the real motive behind this entire cancel culture.

[Mike D.]

As someone who’s team is named after laundry, and not even fancy top layer laundry, I find this hard to get up in arms about.

[conor912]

Should have just gone with the Cleveland Wokes.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

They weren't named after Sockalexis. Otherwise, they would have been called the Cleveland Socks.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

They were probably OK with it, but I heard the local UPS Drivers raised hell.