Exciting Ramly Discovery

[Casey2296]

This is why I love this sub, thanks for posting.

[phlflyer1]

Jon,

Excellent and informative research as always. Thanks for sharing it!

Scott

[brass_rat]

Great research, Jon. I look forward to reading your future updates.

May I ask where you found this new example? Do most of the various examples originate from the Boston area or have they dispersed over time?

Steve

[NiceDocter]

Also recall seeing in an article a few years back the possibility of some sort of connection between RAMLY and spelled backwards... YLMAR pronounced HELMAR . Or is this just a weird coincidence? Or would it rather be HELMAR spelled backwards is RAMLEH pronounced Ramly.

[canjond]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the kind words.

Steve - this latest pack came out of Connecticut. So “Northeast” for sure.

Rocky - Ramly was a word play on the popular Ramleh cigarettes, which found its sales impacted enough they reportedly changed the name to Helmar.

[Eggoman]

Hey Jon:

GREAT bit of Sleuth-Work! Just thought that I'd add this scan for fun!!

[rjackson44]

Thanks man

[sb1]

Jon,

Nice work....I guess it's best you ended up with the box, I never would have delved this deep.

Although there are very few instances of anyone finding T204's in a box, there are two that I am aware of.

A "find" purchased by another board member years back had the Ramly Turkish Cigarettes Mentor Co. black box as we have known before filled with T204 cards, there was literally no room side to side in the box, the smaller Cambyses box I don't believe would have been large enough to hold a card.(pic attached of cards in find box).

Further as I recall, the box from Leon's collection once housed a raw card that he got graded(box pic attached from Heritage Auction of his collection).

The very few newspaper ads promoting the Ball players pics in the packages that I found were July 1909, further tying together the black Mentor Co. labeled box front and the actual T204 cards. The large two known store displays are dated 1909 and one has two of the Ramly Turkish Mentor box fronts attached to it(owned by a board member), mine never had any boxes adorning it.(scans attached). I also found a Red Sox Score card from 1909 with an ad for the T204 cards(scan attached).

Another Ramly Turkish Cigarettes Mentor Co. box was also found with all 10 cigarettes AND the 1910 offer for the photogravure. The newspaper ads are all from 1910 for those. (Box and coupon with 1910 stamp attached).

It appears Timayenis and the later owners/execs. ran several different campaigns, 1909 was the introduction of the T204 cards as we know them, which was only advertised for a few short weeks, although they might have been offered the entire season. The images used for the set were all Carl Horner images, rotated ever so slightly. Given Timayenis' business acumen, chances are he pirated those and may have been called out on it by Horner and the card campaign shortened.

The 1910 campaign appears to be for the large photogravure, of which three are now known. They are on very fragile newsprint type stock and most would not have survived.

1912 we now know that Mentor Co./Cambyses promoted a Red Sox photo or premium of some type. It's entirely possible they did something in 1911 as well.

All that being said, I believe the card issue is confined to 1909, bolstered by the players and their respective teams. The new Red Cambyses box and ad for the 1912 Red Sox item certainly make for a premium/photo of some type to search for.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by canjond

Thanks guys. Appreciate the kind words.

Steve - this latest pack came out of Connecticut. So “Northeast” for sure.

Rocky - Ramly was a word play on the popular Ramleh cigarettes, which found its sales impacted enough they reportedly changed the name to Helmar.

I don't know if this was posted, but it seems that the switch from Ramleh to Helmar took place in late Summer of 1907:

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

What a great resource, thanks for taking the time to post. Now, where can I get some of these Ramly's for a reasonable price???