ESPN Top 100

[Shoeless Moe]

So the Great White Dope comes in at #14 on ESPN's 2022 Fantasy Baseball rankings for his age 30 season, yet is #15 All Time.

https://www.espn.com/fantasy/basebal...s-leagues-2022

I highly doubt if there were Fantasy Baseball ranking going into any age 30 season on Ruth, Mays, Williams, Cobb, etc would ever have been below 1, 2 or 3....let alone 14!

Probably for ANY season they played, 'cept maybe their last 1 or 2 to end their careers.

Trout has 13 players ahead of him this year alone, again his age 30 season!!!!

Yet he's 15th all time?????? He's barely 15th this year!

Please.

Just asinine.


And to criticize Williams, who for 3 of his prime seasons went to WAR, and not the F--king stat, but to defend his country, gave up 3 of his best years, and later went back to fight in Korea.

Ignorant! Just that you think Trout has had a better career then Williams, good lord. I'm done. I can't stoop to your level of stupidity.

I've tried, I can't get there, you win.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Ignorant! Just that you think Trout has had a better career then Williams, good lord. I'm done. I can't stoop to your level of stupidity.

Maybe I missed it, but who said that “Trout has had a better career then [sic] Williams…”?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Maybe I missed it, but who said that “Trout has had a better career then [sic] Williams…”?

Sure wasn't me lol. Total straw man. My only point was that pure counting numbers don't necessarily fully do justice to Trout. I brought up Ted again only to contextualize the point about Trout's post season numbers. I can't imagine how anyone could read that as criticizing him?

[Shoeless Moe]

OK you didn't "criticize", you compared or knocked his WS #'s. Don't do that. Do not compare him to Williams. Pick Josh Gibson or Bryce Harper. If you want to compare him to someone.

First, if Williams plays for the Red Sox those 3 years, he ABSOLUTELY wins the World Series at least 2 of those years. I think the Red Sox w/Williams (and in his prime) would take down those powerhouse St L Browns fairly easily.

2nd, back to Trout.

He's NEVER led the league in:

Hits
Home Runs
Triples
Doubles
Batting Average
RBIs (he led once in 11 years)
SBs (he led once in 11 years)

He's never been in a World Series
He's never won a Playoff game (0 for 3)

He's batted .083 in Post Season play.

I'm sorry those numbers don't crack the Top 30 players of All Time.

Trout does everything very good, but nothing Great. And to be Great you need to do something Great, lead in HR's, lead in Stolen Bases, lead in RBI's, lead in Batting Average, lead in something, take you team to the Playoffs consistently. He's done none of that. He's a mere poster boy for auction house hype, and looks the part, but unfortunately just doesn't have the numbers. The REAL numbers. And I don't care about WAR and who he's replacing.

The Angels need to worry more about who's replacing him, not who he is replacing, he's hurt so often lately they need to find a better replacement player. WAR-MT.

He played at a time where for the most part there were not a lot of great players until recently. Now there is an influx of young talent that has pushed Trout back to #14 on 2022 rankings, and are just as talented as he was. We just need a few years to let that young talent play out.

So all that lack of achieving doesn't get in the Top 30 All Time.

Williams was a true beast and probably the GREATEST pure hitter of all time, please don't compare the 2, even if it's just post season numbers because there too, Ted at least made it to a WS.......let's see if Trout can get out of the "Wild Card" round. Then we'll talk.

Or get back to me in 10 years................................and Williams will still win that battle.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would rank Williams in the top 5. I don't disagree with you at all about him. Our only disagreement is on Trout and my point there is that, in the first decade of his career, pretty much from the start (and yes, he was injured most of last year), he's been easily the best player in baseball and you'll be hard pressed to find many who would disagree. 3 MVPs and 4 2nds attest to that. Not many guys can make that claim about a decade.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would rank Williams in the top 5. I don't disagree with you at all about him. Our only disagreement is on Trout and my point there is that, in the first decade of his career, pretty much from the start (and yes, he was injured most of last year), he's been easily the best player in baseball and you'll be hard pressed to find many who would disagree. 3 MVPs and 4 2nds attest to that. Not many guys can make that claim about a decade.

...and to that point....and as I stated....there was a definite lull in talent from 2010 to 2019. How many hitters from that time frame are in the Top 100?

I know Harper.

Pujols and Cabrera were already on their downswings by then. Trout is a very good player, but way over-hyped, and benefited from lack of other Top players when he was playing. I mean he's beating Cano, Brantley, Donaldson, Nelson Cruz out for the MVP, c'mon.

And if you say Betts & Altuve.....I'll say ok, I'd probably take both over Trout......I like their jewelry too.

Trout ain't Top 30 all time, sorry. And looking again at the list not probably not Top 40.

So answer the question. Is he too high (or low) ranked at 15? Where would you put him?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...and to that point....and as I stated....there was a definite lull in talent from 2010 to 2019. How many hitters from that time frame are in the Top 100?

I know Harper.

Pujols and Cabrera were already on their downswings by then. Trout is a very good player, but way over-hyped, and benefited from lack of other Top players when he was playing. I mean he's beating Cano, Brantley, Donaldson, Nelson Cruz out for the MVP, c'mon.

And if you say Betts & Altuve.....I'll say ok, I'd probably take both over Trout......I like their jewelry too.

Trout ain't Top 30 all time, sorry. And looking again at the list not probably not Top 40.

So answer the question. Is he too high (or low) ranked at 15? Where would you put him?

First point, Trout was playing great in 2021 when he went down. He was hitting .333 and I think his other stats were quite good too. So it's not at all correct to say he was pushed down by an influx of talent. You are confusing a mostly-missed year due to an injury with a fall off in performance. I don't think we can call a decline yet.

Second, as to where I would rank him, I acknowledged he's getting a bit of a boost for projected future performance. If his career ended today, would I rank him 15? No. But based on his dominance over the 2010s, MVPs, advanced metrics, probably 25 or so.

Betts or Altuve over Trout? No way lol.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

First, if Williams plays for the Red Sox those 3 years, he ABSOLUTELY wins the World Series at least 2 of those years. I think the Red Sox w/Williams (and in his prime) would take down those powerhouse St L Browns fairly easily.

Really? I am a huge Williams fan and have him in my Top 5, but ABSOLUTELY win the World Series twice? Remember, the Yankees were without DiMaggio also. What a wild statement to make.

What two years?

1943 when they trailed the Yankees by 29 games?

1944 when they trailed the Browns (who lost to the Cardinals in the WS 4-2) by 12 games?

1945 when they trailed the Tigers by 17.5 games.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Really? I am a huge Williams fan and have him in my Top 5, but ABSOLUTELY win the World Series twice? Remember, the Yankees were without DiMaggio also. What a wild statement to make.

What two years?

1943 when they trailed the Yankees by 29 games?

1944 when they trailed the Browns (who lost to the Cardinals in the WS 4-2) by 12 games?

1945 when they trailed the Tigers by 17.5 games.

.....and you just proved my point. See how bad they were without Williams. Dude made his TEAM better, Altuve makes his TEAM better. Harper & Trout.....please. Harper leaves and his former team wins the World Series the very next year. Prima-donnas. You can have them.


This is real WAR...and you said it:

29
12
17.5

His last year before he left they were 93-59 and the year he came back 104-50 and in the WS.

Thanks for the assist Bob!!!!!

1942-93-59 (w/Williams)
1943-68-84 (w/o Williams)
1944-77-77 (w/o Williams)
1945-71-83 (w/o Williams)
1946-104-50 (w/Williams)


and actually I'm not too good with math, but I'd say his WARII is about 30 each of those years....Wins w/Williams!!!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

.....and you just proved my point. See how bad they were without Williams. Dude made his TEAM better, Altuve makes his TEAM better. Harper & Trout.....please. Harper leaves and his former team wins the World Series the very next year. Prima-donnas. You can have them.


This is real WAR...and you said it:

29
12
17.5

His last year before he left they were 93-59 and the year he came back 104-50 and in the WS.

Thanks for the assist Bob!!!!!

1942-93-59 (w/Williams)
1943-68-84 (w/o Williams)
1944-77-77 (w/o Williams)
1945-71-83 (w/o Williams)
1946-104-50 (w/Williams)


and actually I'm not too good with math, but I'd say his WARII is about 30 each of those years....Wins w/Williams!!!

Williams’ absence is certainly a factor in their poorer showing during the war years. But I’m sorry, it is not the only factor. Many other players were gone too because a massive war was on. Pesky missed those years, and he was a .330 hitter in that period. DiMaggio was gone. Dower missed 1945. Many of their other players and pitchers were too. Williams was great, but this is not a reasonable position to hold that he is the difference between 1946 and 1945.