Show...me...your print variations!

[butchie_t]

I sent him a direct email after seeing a number of his postings on eBay. Indeed I have purchased a number of them from him directly. Which is cool!

Butch

[ejstel]

Butch- do you have the 1971 Nash and Northrup blobs? There are some graded out there. I saw some at the Chantilly show and picked up.

I had a 1969 Topps 50th stamp of the 1969 Arcia white letters (prob 1 of 1) - but I sold it to buy more cards

Best,
Ed

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[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Butch- do you have the 1971 Nash and Northrup blobs? There are some graded out there. I saw some at the Chantilly show and picked up.

I had a 1969 Topps 50th stamp of the 1969 Arcia white letters (prob 1 of 1) - but I sold it to buy more cards

Best,
Ed

Ed,

I do have the Nash blob and I have 3 color phases of the Northrup blob.

Nothing wrong with selling a card for more cards.

Butch

[deweyinthehall]

I checked mine and it looks perfectly normal - was this left off the earlier posts for that reason, or was it that this wasn't a commonly known variation?

[butchie_t]

Yes, that is the common card of Strom.

I think it was just not included in the initial postings.

[Elberson]

Ok….found another 1967 Topps back variation…..517 Fred Talbot can be found with white spec top and black dot spec’s in stat box

[JollyElm]

I have spent way too much time recently examining 1969 Topps #50 Bob Clemente cards, and I noticed something pretty cool. I call it 'Redbatto Clemente.'

The Clemente on the left is the traditional card, wherein his bat is the basic light beige color without a speck of magenta to be seen. The two cards on the right, though, show how his lumber can be found transformed into a piece of redwood...

1969clementeRedBat.jpg

Since there are countless 1969 Clemente cards on eBay, it's relatively easy to track one down, but their occurrence rate as a percentage is extremely low. The extra red is quite noteworthy in his fleshtones as well.

[e6phillips]

I ran across the second one of these recently.

[ALR-bishop]

Eric---I have one of the Baileys as well. The amount of red seems to verry some. Scarce recurring print defect ?

[Sliphorn]

I found this on a listing for it at $600 on ebay. Thankfully I got this one for about $80 from another seller. I have only seen these two with the white line across the top of the red info blurb. I also notice that on the lower example, there is some red in the stitching on the ball. It appears that the ball is down farther.

[ejstel]

Picked this up on ebay for low $...the seller had a few other similar cards avail with more popular players (unissued proofs) Seem real...not sure they are retiring from making fake Mark Wagner test proofs?


If anyone has any cool unissued photo proofs (like the 1967 Maris Yankees) pls share. I always had my eye on the 1977 Topps Proofs with unissued photos (I've seen them listed here or there) but could never part with the $.

Best,
Ed

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[Cliff Bowman]

The 1982 Fleer Test cards are legit and not overly rare, I think the only pricey ones are a couple of Cal Ripken’s.

[ALR-bishop]

The last are extension of these

[Elberson]

Ok….I’m so tired of looking at my 1967’s lol. I found another variation….470 bob Shaw can be found with bottom black boarder break under the S in Mets

[ALR-bishop]

The Shaw border break can be found without the red registration issue so I guess you could get 3 versions

[Elberson]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

The Shaw border break can be found without the red registration issue so I guess you could get 3 versions

I found a million dollar error…….yeah lol……eBay 1/1

[ALR-bishop]

A Bob Shaw or 1967 master set collector would almost have to have it whatever the cost

[Sliphorn]

Here are three RV of this card. The bottom one was bought by me in 1959 from a wax pack so it is not something I did to it. The middle one has some missing stats and there are a few of these on eBay and perhaps COMC.

[ALR-bishop]

Finaly checked my set. I have the middle deviant, so had to look for normal card. That has happened to me a few times during this thread.

[ejstel]

Sharing as a tribute to Dusty looking so happy tonight post the walk off win...

Um but still...go Yankees! (and Mariners)

Green print shift
...and the elusive blue....

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[ALR-bishop]

Shift is a neat one. There are several threads in here on how blue variants arise, like the 58 Aaron or the 66 Mays

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Sharing as a tribute to Dusty looking so happy tonight post the walk off win...

Um but still...go Yankees! (and Mariners)

Green print shift
...and the elusive blue....

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Nice color shift on the top Baker.

Below is my elusive white letter Hebner card, missing the yellow just like the bottom Baker card. My guess is that the missing yellow on both cards is due to the same source....too much sun light. My Hebner card came straight from my west facing window after sitting there for about a month or so.

[butchie_t]

Shoutout to Ed for the following.

69 Topps Ed Stroud Blue mark on his shoulder. Not sure if this is the one that Dingman documented or not. He mentioned a black mark so if someone has the black marked one, I would like to see it to compare with this one.

[ejstel]

Hi I heard the yellow to white but not yellow to blue. I thought topps just didn't run the yellow (to make green) will check the other article mentioned in above reply.

So for the Ed Stroud Card that Butch just posted are we saying that if he left it in the sun that Senators and Stroud would turn white and the green circle would turn blue?...I haven't seen that happen...but open to learn more.

Didn't someone post a blue team circle 1969 Hannah a few years ago? To prove the theory above, was the team name in white?

Best,
Ed

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[ALR-bishop]

Sometime back some blue 58 Aarons turned up and sold for high dollars as missing color variants, but some of our printing slouths. Ben and Steve I think, demonstrated that blue turns to green after a lot of sun or light exposure.I think Ben posted results of some experiments he ran.

Here are my Mays and Aaron. Fortunately I got my Aaron after the market imploded on them. The amount of blue varies depending on exposure. Some Aarons are much bluer than mine.

You can also see yellow goes white

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Hi I heard the yellow to white but not yellow to blue. I thought topps just didn't run the yellow (to make green) will check the other article mentioned in above reply.

So for the Ed Stroud Card that Butch just posted are we saying that if he left it in the sun that Senators and Stroud would turn white and the green circle would turn blue?...I haven't seen that happen...but open to learn more.

Didn't someone post a blue team circle 1969 Hannah a few years ago? To prove the theory above, was the team name in white?

Best,
Ed

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For the example you gave, yes, most likely the team name would turn white and the green circle would turn blue if left in the sun for an appropriate amount of time. The yellow ink that Topps used in this time period appears to be the quickest to fade as compared to the red and blue inks.

Below are some examples (I have posted previously in this thread) of this same scenario where some clever person tried to create their own WL version of these cards that do have WL variations. They merely covered all but the top portions of each card (the reason the team name didn't turn yellow) which caused the upper parts of the green circles to turn blue and the yellow letters to turn white. On the Epstein card, you can still clearly see the green below the WLs of Epstein.

[G1911]

I’ve made some “blue” vintage Topps cards from green cards a couple of ways. Exposure will do it easiest. I do not believe any of this type, even when people are paying hundreds of dollars for these “variations”, are legitimate. None of them left the printer this way, it’s damage. It looks cool sometimes though.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Sometime back some blue 58 Aarons turned up and sold for high dollars as missing color variants, but some of our printing slouths. Ben and Steve I think, demonstrated that blue turns to green after a lot of sun or light exposure.I think Ben posted results of some experiments he ran.

Here are my Mays and Aaron. Fortunately I got my Aaron after the market imploded on them. The amount of blue varies depending on exposure. Some Aarons are much bluer than mine.

You can also see yellow goes white

I'm going to say that was all Ben, who has really studied and experimented with the fading. A missing color is possible, but considering how easily they can be made from normal cards I'd have to consider any missing yellow to be very suspect.

The Mays is a really strange one, having a different color back. I'd have to experiment a bit to see how to make that happen with chemicals, as I don't think it's fading.

[JollyElm]

Everyone needs to remember that 'savedfrommyspokes' Larry is the dream killer!!! When you've discovered an incredibly, historically new variation, he turns your life into a nightmare as he proves it to be nothing more than a fanciful daydream. And I should know, because like others, my head is a trophy mounted on his wall.

(Great guy, though!! )

[ejstel]

Yes agreed. Everything looks so dark on the Baker card (without any fades). In my heart of heart I feel the 1971 Topps crew smoked a few extra marlboro 100's on the back dock while the yellow ink ran out.

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[G1911]

Originally Posted by ejstel

In my heart of heart I feel the 1971 Topps crew smoked a few extra marlboro 100's on the back dock while the yellow ink ran out.

This is why the myth persists, and some are still manufacturing these to sell on eBay. People want to believe they are real. The ink didn’t run out. These blue Topps cards are honest damage or dishonest alteration. Yellow to white and blue to green should raise immediate flags on a Topps card, just as red to orange on a T card should but often doesn’t.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Everyone needs to remember that 'savedfrommyspokes' Larry is the dream killer!!! When you've discovered an incredibly, historically new variation, he turns your life into a nightmare as he proves it to be nothing more than a fanciful daydream. And I should know, because like others, my head is a trophy mounted on his wall.

(Great guy, though!! )

The irony of this is that my head is right next to Darren's on my own wall.....within a few weeks of each other, we both had picked up these historic 71 WL cards from the same source. After getting my 71s and thinking back to all of Ben's sun tests on cards, I tried it on a 71 myself....

As Darren's collectorisms list grows seemingly daily, I may have missed it, but I am quite sure there should be a term for this scenario if there is not already.

[butchie_t]

Sunny Strays comes to mind. But I don’t have the pizzazz that Darren has with these creations.

[JollyElm]

103. Rays of Might
Asking whether a card is a ‘missing ink’ variation or just a card affected by overexposure to sunlight.

See also: Sunblather - trying to convince someone that an obviously sun-bleached card is a rare, missing ink variation.

See also: Fraudosynthesis - leaving a card out in the sun for a long time, and then attempting to convert the inevitable color fading into the energy of big-time dollar signs by calling it a ‘missing ink’ variation.

See also: Sunspurn - not buying the bogus story being sold to you about a 'missing ink' card.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Missing the "I" in the "1961 BATTING LEADERS" line.

This recurring back obscuration can be found in varying degrees in size.

[ejstel]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

103. Rays of Might

Asking whether a card is a ‘missing ink’ variation or just a card affected by overexposure to sunlight.



See also: Sunblather - trying to convince someone that an obviously sun-bleached card is a rare, missing ink variation.



See also: Fraudosynthesis - leaving a card out in the sun for a long time, and then attempting to convert the inevitable color fading into the energy of big-time dollar signs by calling it a ‘missing ink’ variation.



See also: Sunspurn - not buying the bogus story being sold to you about a 'missing ink' card.

I am not ready to see the light (pun intended) of salvation!...that Baylor is soooo dark.

I just can't accept that cheap Topps printers never ran out of yellow....even with all the stuff we've seen in this thread...never no yellow? Whoever sold yellow ink to Topps (always stocked up)...lived in a big house on a hill.

Butch...leave that Stroud in the sun!

Ed



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[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by ejstel

I am not ready to see the light (pun intended) of salvation!...that Baylor is soooo dark.

I just can't accept that cheap Topps printers never ran out of yellow....even with all the stuff we've seen in this thread...never no yellow? Whoever sold yellow ink to Topps (always stocked up)...lived in a big house on a hill.

Butch...leave that Stroud in the sun!

Ed

Oh, I wasn't responding to you, just to Larry who wondered if I have 'Collectorisms' for these types of things.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ejstel

I am not ready to see the light (pun intended) of salvation!...that Baylor is soooo dark.

I just can't accept that cheap Topps printers never ran out of yellow....even with all the stuff we've seen in this thread...never no yellow? Whoever sold yellow ink to Topps (always stocked up)...lived in a big house on a hill.

Butch...leave that Stroud in the sun!

Ed



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Please look at this from a different perspective. By your reasoning that some aloof worker allowed the yellow run to happen with no yellow ink, then there should be multiple other cards from this sheet that would normally have either green or yellow letters but due to the missing yellow would then have either blue lettering or white lettering instead.

In my 40+ years of collecting, I have not come across, either personally or seen through forums such as this, other cards from this sheet missing their yellow run. Not to say they have not been out there for years, and just not uncovered. However, logic would dictate that sometime over the past 51 years some astute collector would have pointed these yellow-less cards out to the rest of the hobby...as far as I know, they have not.

Bottom line is if the Baker is legit, there should be other yellow-less cards out there.

Now, watch in the next month or so, they'll be a plethora of yellow-less 71s pop out of the woodwork (after 51 years of not being discovered).

[G1911]

Why are the vast majority of alleged 'missing color' cards the colors that just happen to easily fade to the color the card has present instead? Why is it almost always yellow to white, green to blue on Topps, red to orange on T cards?

Reason gives us the answer.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by ejstel

Butch...leave that Stroud in the sun!

Ed

Ed, No way dude!

[ejstel]

Sharing the Topps color wheel of doom! Middle left is not a safe place to be.

*This image is a 1 of 1 nft variation with red and blue in white font

I had bought the 2 bakers from the same seller (same blue tape) ..at least he (and I) went 1 for 2 in identifying print variations.

Ed


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[Northviewcats]

Hello Everyone,

I got this card in a lot of 1949 Bowmans the other day. First, I thought it was just a faded card, but then the gray strip at the top of the card and the ghost image of Pesky's hat at the center top, caught my eye. I guess that it is a missing color, gray slate variation wan-a-be. Any thoughts?

Best regards,

Joe

[G1911]

The layers of colors are misaligned, hence the cap, the gray strip at top, and the misalignment in his jersey text. Gray/Slate fronts are totally missing a color to make them appear that way, and this card is an exemplar that shows why. Without the red layer, that's the background color

[ALR-bishop]

Neat defect Joe

[Northviewcats]

Originally Posted by G1911

The layers of colors are misaligned, hence the cap, the gray strip at top, and the misalignment in his jersey text. Gray/Slate fronts are totally missing a color to make them appear that way, and this card is an exemplar that shows why. Without the red layer, that's the background color

Thanks Greg and Al.

I understand the misalignment defect that caused the gray strip and the ghost images with the Boston logo and the jersey text, but I am still not getting the error in color. All of the Pesky cards that I see on eBay or the other red background 1949 Bowmans that I have in my possession are a rich deep red color. (I am attaching a picture of the Pesky next to a Rosen card to show the difference in color.) My question is the difference in color have to do with natural sunlight fading, or is there another missing color in the Pesky card? In other words, are there two separate printing errors, poor alignment and missing color?

I appreciate the board's expertise and patience.

Best regards,

Joe

[steve B]

Much older cards were sometimes done with multiple layers of similar colors, but that was pretty much out by the late 40's. Nearly everything you'll see postwar is just CMYK. None of those are missing, so it's down to if it's fading or not.

Yellow seems about right.
Blue Seems a bit light
Black/gray Shouldn't fade and looks about right
Red is obviously light.

Red can fade readily for a lot of the colorants, so fading wouldn't be a surprise.

But here, we have an extra complication. (Don't we always? )

Note how blue and red are in registration with each other. And how yellow and black are in registration with each other.
That's a sign that a 2 color press was used. Pretty cool.
Red and blue both being from the same pass and both being light makes me lean towards the sheet it was from being used for press setup. Adjusting the registration and ink levels. Probably an early pass, when the plate wasn't fully inked, and registration hadn't been fully adjusted.

Of course, it's possible that red and blue fade more readily than yellow and black on 49 bowmans.

[Troy Kirk]

Saw the 1967 Nen variation thread and checked my cards. I don't have the missing position variation, but I did have 7 copies of the card and noticed what looks like three different printings, with color differences. In the top row, the Senators team name is darker, almost blue, the sky is darker blue and the image of Nen is a bit muddy. In the second row, Senators is more purple, sky is lighter blue, image is clearer. In the third row, Senators is almost pink, sky is almost white, and image is very clear though a lot lighter.



Also notices on Checklist #361 card, the backs can be found in tan or white.

[ALR-bishop]

I think you can find differences in all the 67 checklists, but on 361 the only 2 I have involve those same back color differences. Anyone have other differences ?

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I think you can find differences in all the 67 checklists, but on 361 the only 2 I have involve those same back color differences. Anyone have other differences ?

The only variation I have seen listed is the boxes are either even with the names and numbers or they are lower. Photo from Mike Cody's website.

Mike

Web capture_30-10-2022_192544_.jpeg

[JollyElm]

Check out this thread I started many moons ago about 1967 checklist variations...

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=207639