Top 25 Worst MLB HOFER’S

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

Wilhelm and Eck are clearly above the others.

I would argue Eck doesn't belong in the Hall. He's incredibly overrated as a reliever. Does 3 great seasons plus one very good one make somebody an all-time great reliever?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I would argue Eck doesn't belong in the Hall. He's incredibly overrated as a reliever. Does 3 great seasons plus one very good one make somebody an all-time great reliever?

Look at the list. In the context the statement was made, it was the 4 relievers in the hall of fame through 2006. Is Eck “clearly ahead” of Fingers and Sutter in his careers value? Obviously yes. I also specifically said later in the post I would not put Eck in the hall. When did I say he was an all time great reliever?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

Look at the list. In the context the statement was made, it was the 4 relievers in the hall of fame through 2006. Is Eck “clearly ahead” of Fingers and Sutter in his careers value? Obviously yes. I also specifically said later in the post I would not put Eck in the hall. When did I say he was an all time great reliever?

His being in the Hall implies he's an all-time great.

I suppose you could argue that Eck has more career value than Sutter but that's just because he has a decade+ of mediocre years as a starter. Sutter, who also doesn't belong in the Hall, was clearly a better reliever than Eck.

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

[MailboxBaseball]

For my money its Alan Trammell
Jim Kaat for honorable mention

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

His being in the Hall implies he's an all-time great.

I suppose you could argue that Eck has more career value than Sutter but that's just because he has a decade+ of mediocre years as a starter. Sutter, who also doesn't belong in the Hall, was clearly a better reliever than Eck.

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

Yes being in the Hall does imply that he is an all-time great. But as I have said twice now, I do not think he should be in. It sounds like we agree here.

One could argue that Eck has more career value than Sutter did. It’s a very easy case as he pitched triple the innings and has 250% more WAR. I cannot come up with a way to conclude Sutter had more value and that WAR is wildly off in this case. I also very explicitly noted in my post that Eck’s starting career is what puts him over many other relievers in the math. So I don’t see where we disagree here either.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Unlike nearly everybody on the card side of the forum, I haven't dealt with (unsigned) cards for eons. I'm an autograph guy. I've been at this for a very long time and can tell you that prior to their inductions, I never once had anybody ask me if I had any Bruce Sutter or Harold Baines autographs I was looking to move. Not a single request. Literally nobody cared, and their autographs were worth nothing. This has to be mirrored on the unsigned card side of the equation. Then again, I've still not had any requests for their autographs, but see the obvious escalation in demand.

I had extremely sporadic requests for Mazeroksi and Cepeda pre-induction, but perhaps only once or twice. I specialize in vintage material, so am certainly not the go-to guy for readily made collectibles from the card show signing circuit, but you'd still think more requests for some of these players would have been made. Nope.

[ClementeFanOh]

Tabe- with regard to G1911 (and your stating you didn't mean to put words
in his mouth), I must refer you to G1911s "rules for comment"

1) G1911 is ALWAYS right- always.

2) G1911 has decreed that any dissenting opinion is inherently wrong

3) See rule 1 for any questions.

I'm sure he's a real hit at parties... don't worry about his feelings too much.

Trent King

[mr2686]

I love the one of the articles knock on Catfish Hunter: "He also was fortunate to play with two loaded teams in a pitchers-friendly decade at the time'"
I've never considered the A's and the Yankees from those WS teams "loaded". The A's had Catfish, Fingers and Jackson as future hall of famers, and a team of guys that knew how to play their positions and could come up with some key hits. The Yankees had Catfish and Jackson (for Cat's last 3 years) as future hof'ers but also had a couple that should be in (YMMV) in Munson and Guidry. They may have had a high payroll, but Steinbrenner over spent on some average players.
Sorry, you can run all the new metrics and create all kinds of fancy numbers, but if you never saw The Cat pitch, you missed out on a true hall of famer.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Tabe- with regard to G1911 (and your stating you didn't mean to put words
in his mouth), I must refer you to G1911s "rules for comment"

1) G1911 is ALWAYS right- always.

2) G1911 has decreed that any dissenting opinion is inherently wrong

3) See rule 1 for any questions.

I'm sure he's a real hit at parties... don't worry about his feelings too much.

Trent King

The thesis is that Tabe and I seem to actually agree in an arbitrary opinion, not that anyone is factually right or wrong in their opinion…

I do not understand why I live rent free in your head and blood pressure and you do this almost every week after I said I think Kaline slightly squeaks Clemente in career value in a thread specifically about that, but you might want to find a healthier obsession. Can’t you just PM me or email me your hate mail instead of spamming the board unprovoked again and again? Or make a Watercooler thread “G1911 sucks”? Hijacking for a vendetta is rude to third parties and a little weird.

[spartygw]

Rabbit Maranville and Catfish Hunter should be in the hall of cool nicknames but not the HOF.

I disagree with the idea that Morris doesn't belong. I understand advanced statistics and use of WAR but you can't measure how guys perform under extreme pressure (as far as I know there's no stat).

Morris was undoubtedly a jerk, but with everything on the line he was nails.

[ClementeFanOh]

G1911- You have exceeded even your worst logic, congrats! "Hijacking...
is rude and a little weird"? BINGO...

Speaking of being inside heads, looks like I'm your Huckleberry

Trent King

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by spartygw

Rabbit Maranville and Catfish Hunter should be in the hall of cool nicknames but not the HOF.

I disagree with the idea that Morris doesn't belong. I understand advanced statistics and use of WAR but you can't measure how guys perform under extreme pressure (as far as I know there's no stat).

Morris was undoubtedly a jerk, but with everything on the line he was nails.

his career post season numbers are just as mediocre as his regular season numbers. Selective memory, we only remember the really awesome successes.