Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[Tabe]

When discussing Schilling's personality, it's also worth remembering that he stole a pile of money from the state of Rhode Island.

[darwinbulldog]

More than I am a big hall or small hall guy, I am a prefer-the-players'-Hall-fates-be-determined-by-what-they-did-on-the-field guy. I'm aware of the character clause and all, and I can understand why some voters really place a premium on that and feel qualified to evaluate everyone's character, but it's all just luck -- what combination of genetic and environmental forces conspired to make you a moral paragon or a total degenerate or a star athlete or an uncoordinated dolt. I just want a place that celebrates the best players.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

When discussing Schilling's personality, it's also worth remembering that he stole a pile of money from the state of Rhode Island.

How about his humanitarian awards and charity? Or is that different, and only a company that ultimately failed, from which Schilling didn’t take a salary and lost millions himself on, that the state invested in should be a focus?

It’s a silly game of trying to find other reasons, applied to no other figure in baseball history, to justify the result without having to acknowledge what it plainly is.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

How about his humanitarian awards and charity? Or is that different, and only a company that ultimately failed, from which Schilling didn’t take a salary and lost millions himself on, that the state invested in should be a focus?

I was mentioning the fraud as an addendum took the mentions of his charity work. Just trying to help complete the picture.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Tabe

When discussing Schilling's personality, it's also worth remembering that he stole a pile of money from the state of Rhode Island.

At the time I proposed they should shackle him to the front steps of the state capital and make him sign autographs for $10 each until he paid it all back.

That being said, I'd vote for him for the Hall of Fame.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by Tabe

When discussing Schilling's personality, it's also worth remembering that he stole a pile of money from the state of Rhode Island.

I wouldn't go that far. He had a failed business. Didn't know what he was doing. He paid a pretty huge price. I'd bet 25% of people on this forum have a higher net worth than Schilling does at this point.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Tabe

When discussing Schilling's personality, it's also worth remembering that he stole a pile of money from the state of Rhode Island.

He didn't steal anything. Politicians invested money in his company and lost out when it failed.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

He didn't steal anything. Politicians invested money in his company and lost out when it failed.

He agreed to pay a few million back when sued for fraud and argued that he would pay more but he didn’t have it. Again, not losing sleep over someone like that not being in the hall. His bloody sock is probably in - that seems good enough. No cy youngs, a scattering of all star appearances. Great pitcher but not a clear cut guy to begin with and seems to have some issues.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

He didn't steal anything. Politicians invested money in his company and lost out when it failed.

They took $75,000,000 from Rhode Island and filed bankruptcy a year later. They moved to RI in April 2011 and were already bouncing checks in May of 2012. Those in charge of the funding were found to have committed fraud and the company, Schilling included, knew they couldn't deliver what they had promised for that $75m. That's theft. Plain and simple.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

They took $75,000,000 from Rhode Island and filed bankruptcy a year later. They moved to RI in April 2011 and were already bouncing checks in May of 2012. Those in charge of the funding were found to have committed fraud and the company, Schilling included, knew they couldn't deliver what they had promised for that $75m. That's theft. Plain and simple.

They received the investment loan in 2010, May 2012 is the collapse. That they ran out of money is not unusual. They didn't make it. Most businesses fail. Is there any evidence that they could not have created the 450 jobs if they had succeeded? That doesn't seem like overkill for a studio that succeeds. There's a very good argument the government should not engage in this kind of speculative investment, which I agree with.

It was reported in 2014 that some unnamed executives knew that the loan was not enough to cover all their expenses and finish the game (which was finished though). I am not clear whether there was some promise in the contract that the investment would be the only money needed by the company. That would be highly unusual. The SEC charged Rhode Island Commerce Corporation and Wells Fargo with fraud for not disclosing relevant information to bond holders. The Rhode Island police were also unable to find anything to charge Schilling or 38 with. Schilling and the company eventually had to pay $61 million in civil suits and costs, eating up most of Schilling's net worth, apparently.

Citation for theft charge, and the claim that Schilling knew the company would not succeed and could not deliver? They came close, their game got very good reviews and sold over a million copies in the first 90 days, it's not like they were selling a phantom product they never made.

As far as I can tell, the government made poor choices, the company got some big names in that world and put together a good product, but it failed as the majority do, and so the company went under and it's backers, Schilling primary among them, lost money.

I see zero relevance to the Hall of Fame. I can't find any evidence Schilling did anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing a piece. While I disagree with many of his public comments, I don't see the problem with a business not succeeding.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

They received the investment loan in 2010, May 2012 is the collapse. That they ran out of money is not unusual. They didn't make it. Most businesses fail. Is there any evidence that they could not have created the 450 jobs if they had succeeded? That doesn't seem like overkill for a studio that succeeds. There's a very good argument the government should not engage in this kind of speculative investment, which I agree with.

It was reported in 2014 that some unnamed executives knew that the loan was not enough to cover all their expenses and finish the game (which was finished though). I am not clear whether there was some promise in the contract that the investment would be the only money needed by the company. That would be highly unusual. The SEC charged Rhode Island Commerce Corporation and Wells Fargo with fraud for not disclosing relevant information to bond holders. The Rhode Island police were also unable to find anything to charge Schilling or 38 with. Schilling and the company eventually had to pay $61 million in civil suits and costs, eating up most of Schilling's net worth, apparently.

Citation for theft charge, and the claim that Schilling knew the company would not succeed and could not deliver? They came close, their game got very good reviews and sold over a million copies in the first 90 days, it's not like they were selling a phantom product they never made.

As far as I can tell, the government made poor choices, the company got some big names in that world and put together a good product, but it failed as the majority do, and so the company went under and it's backers, Schilling primary among them, lost money.

I see zero relevance to the Hall of Fame. I can't find any evidence Schilling did anything wrong here. Maybe I'm missing a piece. While I disagree with many of his public comments, I don't see the problem with a business not succeeding.

The game in question was an MMORPG that was never completed and never released.

If you take money for something you know you can't do, that's theft. It's really that simple.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The game in question was an MMORPG that was never completed and never released.

If you take money for something you know you can't do, that's theft. It's really that simple.

How does this relate to his baseball career?

He has the 26th all time highest WAR as a pitcher. There are 84 pitchers currently enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Just on the surface that hardly says “borderline” or “just outside” the hall standards.

I am not a Schilling fan but it seems some are looking for reasons to exclude.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

How does this relate to his baseball career?

He has the 26th all time highest WAR as a pitcher. There are 84 pitchers currently enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Just on the surface that hardly says “borderline” or “just outside” the hall standards.

I am not a Schilling fan but it seems some are looking for reasons to exclude.

Not at all, we just now truly believe that if you start a business and it fails, that should keep you out of the Hall of Fame if your name is Curt Schilling. This has nothing to do with politics, this rule is specific to him and only him just because.


I almost don't care what the standards are, but the standard should be the same for all. It is blatantly corrupt and wrong when they are not.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

How does this relate to his baseball career?

It doesn't and I never said it did. Since his charitable works and humanitarian stuff - which also don't relate to his baseball career - were brought up, I added in tvs stuff about his company to fill in picture. Nothing more, nothing less.

You didn't ask but I'll tell you - I think he's good enough to be in the Hall.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The game in question was an MMORPG that was never completed and never released.

If you take money for something you know you can't do, that's theft. It's really that simple.

They released the single-player game to good reviews and decent sales in 2012. The MMO component, I see, is what the investment was for and ultimately didn't get to release when they ran out of money.

Still can't find any evidence at all that Schilling solicited and took money for a project he "knew" they couldn't do. That's a very, very serious crime if he did. Have that source for it?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by G1911

They released the single-player game to good reviews and decent sales in 2012. The MMO component, I see, is what the investment was for and ultimately didn't get to release when they ran out of money.

Still can't find any evidence at all that Schilling solicited and took money for a project he "knew" they couldn't do. That's a very, very serious crime if he did. Have that source for it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/b...8-studios.html

Schilling said they needed $100m to make the game. They got $75m.