1952 Topps Images of All Variations <Rolling Thread>

[Zach Wheat]

Irv,

I was not aware of the Wilson or Lopat variations. The House yellow Tiger variation comes in both a normal tan back and gray back. The House yellow Tiger version appears to have a green neck version, similar to the one you posted but more pronounced. Your thoughts on rarity of this version are consistent with my understanding, although I am certainly not an expert.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Irv,

I was not aware of the Wilson or Lopat variations. The House yellow Tiger variation comes in both a normal tan back and gray back. The House yellow Tiger version appears to have a green neck version, similar to the one you posted but more pronounced. Your thoughts on rarity of this version are consistent with my understanding, although I am certainly not an expert.

To keep it simple, there are 3 house variations of the yellow tiger

One has varying degree of red loss/green throat most commonly found since shills will sell anything missing a little red as a yellow tiger and psa will label as such easier to track. Topps created this error by hand.

One has normal red on throat but yellow tiger. Rare this is the error/variation on the sheet


One is a gray back with yellow tiger. Extremely rare. First few sheets printed as gray backs with either house NO RED in logo, or RED in logo. No green throat anomaly found in the gray back series. Nobody knows how many gray backs exist, but if house was printed 3x, likely 1 has yellow (no red), other 2 are red

[Republicaninmass]

I believe a Kucab variation has a fingerprint mark somewhere but dont have time to look

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I believe a Kucab variation has a fingerprint mark somewhere but dont have time to look

Thanks Ted. You probably know more about this set than anyone

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Irv,

Nice green neck variation. There seem to be "a lot" of variations with certain cards. One is the 1952 Topps House and the other is the 52 Topps Campos. There are numerous variations with Campos as well.

From what I've seen, which Ted also touched on, the more red there is on the tiger's tongue, the more greater the chance is of the greenish hue on House's neck.

Speaking of Campos, that is one of the variation cards I don't currently own but wish I did. The black star on the reverse and/or the missing border on the front.
I also don't own, but wish I did again, is the Joe Page/Sain bio error card.
Most of these, including the Frank House yellow tiger, have really increased in value over the last few years so I'm not sure if I ever will?
I also don't own any gray backs but because there are so many, with some real tough, almost impossible ones to obtain, I don't even bother thinking about them.

[ALR-bishop]

In addition to the Campos black star and front border missing version I also have what looks like a partial black star. I think I posted it in the 52 Gallery thread.

I will count up how many variants I have of the 407. Since I only have a dozen or so grey backs and am not pursuing them I know I will be well short of any 600 figure


I still think going through it card by card and identifying any variants for each would be best to get a count. For instance in cards 1-80, beyond 2 each of red and black, how may other variants are known and in which color back?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by irv

.....I also don't own, but wish I did again, is the Joe Page/Sain bio error card.
Most of these, including the Frank House yellow tiger, have really increased in value over the last few years so I'm not sure if I ever will?
I also don't own any gray backs but because there are so many, with some real tough, almost impossible ones to obtain, I don't even bother thinking about them.

These are the major variations that most set collectors want to include in their set. Regarding, mid-series gray backs (#131-190), some are more rare than others. I hope to collect all 60, but it is unlikely due to the scarcity of some of them.

As Ted has noted in other threads, the Reiser gray back is difficult to find and the House yellow Tiger gray back is even more difficult.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Thanks Ted. You probably know more about this set than anyone

Aw shucks thank you! Information has been borrowed, but pretty sure I was one of the first to look woth the magnifying glass and pick out the red was stoned off the mask deliberately. Also, the gray back, having either pale yellow or with no variant sums up a few important notes: (for me at least)

1. Grays for some reason were printed first,

2. Somewhere along the line the printer saw the tiger logo and began removing the red mask on others to make them all match. Shortly after they were both matched. Not sure if a new doe had to be made or what have you.

Steveb knows more about printing, but my guess it was cheaper/faster to stone off the red off slowly on the 2 other printed on the sheet, rather than remask/change template and print the red on the yellow tiger.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

....pretty sure I was one of the first to look woth the magnifying glass and pick out the red was stoned off the mask deliberately. Also, the gray back, having either pale yellow or with no variant sums up a few important notes: (for me at least)

1. Grays for some reason were printed first,

2. Somewhere along the line the printer saw the tiger logo and began removing the red mask on others to make them all match. Shortly after they were both matched. Not sure if a new doe had to be made or what have you.

Steveb knows more about printing, but my guess it was cheaper/faster to stone off the red off slowly on the 2 other printed on the sheet, rather than remask/change template and print the red on the yellow tiger.

Interesting....what led you to conclude the gray backs (Mid-series - #131-190) were printed first? Also, did "...removing the mask" slowly occur with other cards?

There are other cards that seem to have different gradations of color in their variations. Common examples not posted yet include say the Kretlow (#42) which has a yellow and peach background on the black back variation. Same with Scarborough (#43) on both black and red back variations.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Interesting....what led you to conclude the gray backs (Mid-series - #131-190) were printed first? Also, did "...removing the mask" slowly occur with other cards?

There are other cards that seem to have different gradations of color in their variations. Common examples not posted yet include say the Kretlow (#42) which has a yellow and peach background on the black back variation. Same with Scarborough (#43) on both black and red back variations.

Zach, you need to re-edit your first post. The Wilson is card #327.
Also, as noted in the H&S link Al once provided, Kretlow has 3 total variations. Yellow, Peach and also Orange, but the orange is on the red back cards.
Also, Ray Boone has 3 different front colors. A darker brownish if you will compared to the red back version but also a lime green front on the other black back.
I'm trying hard to find that fingerprint variation that Ted mentioned but I'm having a difficult time. I believe, IIRC, that was mentioned/shown in the 52 Topps thread? I thought it was Kuzuva, personally, but Ted would definitely know better than me.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Interesting....what led you to conclude the gray backs (Mid-series - #131-190) were printed first? Also, did "...removing the mask" slowly occur with other cards?

The yellow tiger with no green throat was deliberate. No way they changed that after the presses started. Gray back yellow is likley the first few print runs.

I'm not sure if it occurred with any others, though the "fixed " Frank campos partial border looked like it may have had some work done. How can one tell the fixed copy? I'll let that for a little while


[QUOTE]

There are other cards that seem to have different gradations of color in their variations. Common examples not posted yet include say the Kretlow (#42) which has a yellow and peach background on the black back variation. Same with Scarborough (#43) on both black and red back ]

Yes I'm familiar, but I think it was likley different inks

[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

To keep it simple, there are 3 house variations of the yellow tiger

One has varying degree of red loss/green throat most commonly found since shills will sell anything missing a little red as a yellow tiger and psa will label as such easier to track. Topps created this error by hand.

One has normal red on throat but yellow tiger. Rare this is the error/variation on the sheet


One is a gray back with yellow tiger. Extremely rare. First few sheets printed as gray backs with either house NO RED in logo, or RED in logo. No green throat anomaly found in the gray back series. Nobody knows how many gray backs exist, but if house was printed 3x, likely 1 has yellow (no red), other 2 are red

Get what you're saying now.