Paul Skenes Superfractor Ends in Goldin

Peter_Spaeth · #1 07-21-2024, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

He went up against pitchers in that same stadium and won. His opponents had the same pitcher friendly stadium with which to work.

Yes for any given game, but he pitched half his games there and they didn't, so statistically it's to his relative advantage. Look at Koufax home and away, huge disparity, and that feeds into his overall stats because half his games during his peak years were in a cavernous pitcher friendly park. That's why some metrics adjust for park factors.

Carter08 · #2 07-21-2024, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes for any given game, but he pitched half his games there and they didn't, so statistically it's to his relative advantage. Look at Koufax home and away, huge disparity, and that feeds into his overall stats because half his games during his peak years were in a cavernous pitcher friendly park. That's why some metrics adjust for park factors.

Over 350 wins, triple digit WAR total, over a dozen AS appearances, a Cy Young, a few no hitters. Led the league in whip, strikeouts, ERA, complete games, etc many times. All done after his early career was interrupted by a calling to see real action in WW2. Hard pressed to figure how he�s not one of the all time great pitchers. It�s fun to play devils advocate but it doesn�t hold water when trying to knock Spahn.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 07-21-2024, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Over 350 wins, triple digit WAR total, over a dozen AS appearances, a Cy Young, a few no hitters. Led the league in whip, strikeouts, ERA, complete games, etc many times. All done after his early career was interrupted by a calling to see real action in WW2. Hard pressed to figure how he’s not one of the all time great pitchers. It’s fun to play devils advocate but it doesn’t hold water when trying to knock Spahn.

I am a huge Spahn fan, I am just pointing out your logic was inherently flawed on the park effects point.

Carter08 · #4 07-21-2024, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am a huge Spahn fan, I am just pointing out your logic was inherently flawed on the park effects point.

A pitcher�s main goal is to get a win. When he went up against pitchers in what some call a pitcher friendly park he way more often than not won that battle. Hard to do a kabookie dance around that fact.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 07-21-2024, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

A pitcher’s main goal is to get a win. When he went up against pitchers in what some call a pitcher friendly park he way more often than not won that battle. Hard to do a kabookie dance around that fact.

I disagree. A pitcher's main goal is to limit the opposition in order to maximize his team's chances of winning. The metrics showing how good a player was at doing that -- which take into account any park effects -- tell us much more than mere wins and losses.

Carter08 · #6 07-21-2024, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I disagree. A pitcher's main goal is to limit the opposition in order to maximize his team's chances of winning. The metrics showing how good a player was at doing that -- which take into account any park effects -- tell us much more than mere wins and losses.

Disagree. Main, perhaps sole, goal is to win. Everything else is rather secondary. What you wrote sounds rather silly compared to that fundamental fact of the sport. If a pitcher realizes his team is up big and he can stay in the game but give up some runs and still get the win so the bullpen can rest, that�s valuable to a team but won�t necessarily show up in the stats. Not sure what you�re arguing here. Spahn wasn�t elite?

Peter_Spaeth · #7 07-21-2024, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Disagree. Main, perhaps sole, goal is to win. Everything else is rather secondary. What you wrote sounds rather silly compared to that fundamental fact of the sport. If a pitcher realizes his team is up big and he can stay in the game but give up some runs and still get the win so the bullpen can rest, that’s valuable to a team but won’t necessarily show up in the stats. Not sure what you’re arguing here. Spahn wasn’t elite?

Oy. So a pitcher who wins 8-7 did better than one who loses 1-0? If you really think that I can't help you. Of course Spahn is elite, who said he wasn't? I am just saying it's a legitimate point to bring up park effects.

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