What are the best vintage, investment-type players in your opinion?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Don't equivalent Mantle cards still outsell Mays pretty handily? Just to pick a few years, 56, 57, 58?

Yes, and I think Mantle 'awareness' due to the 1952 Topps is one of the factors that goes into driving overall Mantle prices, and I think it is a big one. I know it is flawed inductive reasoning, but we can eliminate many of the other factors that might otherwise explain it:

--As the stats guys have already argued, Mantle towers above other, better players in terms of overall card prices. There has to be a reason for Mantle's prominence that is not performance-based.

--Some of that is Yankees mystique, but not a lot of it. Joe DiMaggio has as much Yankee mystique as anyone, The Yankee Clipper, Mr. Marilyn Monroe, so why does Joe DiMaggio show up consistently in the undervalued lists?

--There is also an argument that the boomer generation with fond Mantle memories distorts the pricing curve. I get that boomers were the generation that kicked off the card collecting craze, and that they knew of Mantle through all of those post-season nationally-televised World Series appearances, but generations have never been the prime drivers of prices on the best cards. No one alive today saw Cobb or Wagner play; doesn't seem to have messed with their card prices.

--Race is a factor, I think, but a diminishing one as the more racist generations die out. I was born a generation after integration of the game, around the time Jim Crow was outlawed, and collectors my age idolized many black players: Aaron, Clemente, Gibson, Brock, etc. In my childhood group of white kids in NYC, for example, I was an Aaron fan and one of my best friends was a Clemente guy. I don't think race per se is a big factor in the value differences.

--I also have to cite hobby-related card behavior as a factor in the hobby's perceptions of these players. Mays was a dick at shows. Mantle wasn't. I know I was a Mays fan but dumped my Mays collection after 'meeting' the man at a show. I have to believe that there is some percentage of collectors who were similarly turned off by certain players at shows and other encounters.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You would have to be 65 or older to have a clear memory of Mantle playing, and even older to have a clear memory of him when he was still great. I wonder what percentage of purchases that generation is still responsible for?

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You would have to be 65 or older to have a clear memory of Mantle playing, and even older to have a clear memory of him when he was still great. I wonder what percentage of purchases that generation is still responsible for?

Check these out, Peter. These are the 2 oldest complete-game telecasts of major league baseball known to exist, games 6 and 7 of the 1952 World Series. You will see for yourself a youthful Mantle "when he was still great":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN2VxjMMwf4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqZnPQnxO9U

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

--Some of that is Yankees mystique, but not a lot of it. Joe DiMaggio has as much Yankee mystique as anyone, The Yankee Clipper, Mr. Marilyn Monroe, so why does Joe DiMaggio show up consistently in the undervalued lists?

It is almost all this. There was a time when Mays and Mantle cards were the same price. The 1952 Topps Mantle was still one of the top 10 cards in the hobby and the 1953 Topps Mays was more valuable than the 1953 Topps Mantle.. A group of New York dealers started buying up Mantle cards driving up prices and creating demand. Mantle became the player to collect and new collectors entering the hobby since have been drawn to the player with the highest values.

DiMaggio is hurt by several factors. No Topps cards and a lack of cards overall. His career numbers were hurt by him being a right handed hitter in Yankee Stadium and missing 3 years to WWII. He only had 2241 hits and 361 HR.

Mantle on the other hand broke Babe Ruth's World Series HR record and was part of the 1961 HR chase. When he retired he was #3 all time in HRs behind Ruth and Mays. The collectors of this boom time remembered Mantle more than DiMaggio and chased his cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm not seeing how DiMaggio is "hurt." His cards seem to me to command very strong prices. I mean the vintage ones, not the dubious 90s autographs.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not seeing how DiMaggio is "hurt." His cards seem to me to command very strong prices. I mean the vintage ones, not the dubious 90s autographs.

Agreed. I think DiMaggio commands very strong prices overall as well. His cards are always going to have the Marilyn Monroe mystique, the 56-game hitting streak, "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Agreed. I think DiMaggio commands very strong prices overall as well. He is always going to have the Marilyn Monroe mystique, the 56-game hitting streak, "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?"

Probably not that many people know the song any more, but

Joe, Joe DiMaggio
We want you on our side

So evocative of that age...

By the way, ironically, Paul Simon's boyhood hero was ... wait for it .... Mantle, but as he explained, he needed a lyric that fit the tune.

And another cultural reference of course, the "Great DiMaggio" of Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea."

Not to mention TWO of the greatest nicknames ever.