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  #1  
Old 11-18-2024, 05:40 PM
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Exactly. I know I'll be corrected if my interpretation is wrong, but a formula that offers a larger statistical reward based on the incompetence of his peers at the same position is not one that I would ever fully recognize. "Everyone else stinks, so by default you're awesome"?! That's rich. If it works for you, wonderful.
I don't think your interpretation is wrong, but the differences in statistical reward or demerit are typically very small across eras.

The only cases I know of where there are substantial differences - like how in the 1910s WAR rates 2b as a perfectly neutral position, offensively - is where the position as a whole has actually changed: second base became more of a fielder's position starting around 1925 or so. In which case the difference isn't due to second baseman becoming worse hitters but to a strategic shift.
Last edited by John1941; 11-18-2024 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 11-18-2024, 06:17 PM
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Bobby Grich Just isn’t a Hall of Fameish sounding name - if he was Bill Grande or Sonny Maverick - He’d probably be in
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Old 11-18-2024, 07:11 PM
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Bobby Grich Just isn’t a Hall of Fameish sounding name - if he was Bill Grande or Sonny Maverick - He’d probably be in
Something with more gravitas like Alexander Grich, or more flair like Diego Grich.
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Old 11-18-2024, 07:28 PM
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Something with more gravitas like Alexander Grich, or more flair like Diego Grich.
ooh or a nickname - “ Hall Of Famer Bobby The Grich ! “
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Old 11-18-2024, 07:29 PM
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Weren't Morgan and Carew contemporaries of Grich? So that's two of the top ten of all time.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 11-18-2024 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 11-18-2024, 07:56 PM
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Weren't Morgan and Carew contemporaries of Grich? So that's two of the top ten of all time.
Not only were Morgan and Carew contemporaries of Grich, they also had really strong years as 2nd basemen in 1973. They both finished 4th in their respective leagues in MVP voting, and Morgan may have deserved to win.

I guess Tabe missed out on that fact. Or does he think Morgan and Carew were "terrible"?
Last edited by cgjackson222; 11-18-2024 at 08:03 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2024, 11:35 PM
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Default Bobby grich
Step outside the old boxes. Grich was a great, no qualifications, no apologies. Excuse me for saying so, but WAR doesn’t lie. Maybe he fell a little short in the counting stats to be a hofer, but he was a truly great player.
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Old 11-20-2024, 09:31 PM
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Not only were Morgan and Carew contemporaries of Grich, they also had really strong years as 2nd basemen in 1973. They both finished 4th in their respective leagues in MVP voting, and Morgan may have deserved to win.

I guess Tabe missed out on that fact. Or does he think Morgan and Carew were "terrible"?
Since Joe didn't play in the AL, no, wasn't counting him. Carew was amazing, no question. The point stands as highlighted by the list of OPS above - his AL contemporaries, as a group, sucked.
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