WWG DiMaggios -- are these the same card?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

Well said Ryan. Who is to say SGC got it right?

So many cards have been regraded since 3rd party card grading companies were created plus nothing suggests this ‘36 WWG Joe D card has ever been altered. Ever since SGC was acquired by PSA, their min size not met requirements is as inconsistent as PSA’s. I wonder if SGC is using that Collector’s purchased software company’s tech for sizing during the grading process.

I agree. If we play the slab game, if it's in one that's all that matters. And i have several instances of SGC not knowing what they were doing. Today's 8 is tomorrow's AUT.
And, I also don't think saying it was rejected is necessary. Sgc probably got it wrong.

[Vintagedeputy]

There’s no question that the cards are the same card. I have never known the “minimum size not met” to mean that the card was trimmed. It simply means that the card was cut (from the factory) shorter than what it should be. I think PSA got this horribly wrong.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Leon

I agree. If we play the slab game, if it's in one that's all that matters. And i have several instances of SGC not knowing what they were doing. Today's 8 is tomorrow's AUT.
And, I also don't think saying it was rejected is necessary. Sgc probably got it wrong.

None of us know which grading service got it wrong. My point is that if I was throwing down six figures for a card I would want to know what its history was, especially if a major grading company gave it an A. If you are saying that you wouldn’t care then I think you are in the minority.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If SGC got it wrong, the owner, or Goldin, had a HUGE incentive to get another opinion before auctioning it the first time. Just measure the card.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If SGC got it wrong, the owner, or Goldin, had a HUGE incentive to get another opinion before auctioning it the first time. Just measure the card.

Measuring the card only tells you the size. It will not tell you if the card is trimmed. Plenty of full sized cards that are trimmed and many small cards that are not.

If the card had been in a Auth Trimmed or Auth Altered SGC holder and then PSA graded it a 6.5, we would have something to discuss. There is nothing here to disclose or to discuss.

SGC saw the card as being 100% authentic and not altered but too small to give a numeric grade. PSA saw the size of the card to be acceptable and assigned a grade. If the card is smaller than 1/32 of an inch PSA should not have assigned a grade to it.

The description writer should be fired for suggesting the card was trimmed, thereby hurting the sale price for the consignor. The buyer hit is out the park.

Based on the scan I think both companies got it wrong because the scan gives the appearance of a trimmed card but I cannot see the edges.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My point is simply the owner or Goldin could have measured the card to make a judgment if SGC had the min size right or not, given the huge upside if there was a reasonable chance it could regrade with a number grade. And if they concluded it was within spec, send it in again, don't sell it for a fraction of value. Not commenting on trimmed or not.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My point is simply the owner or Goldin could have measured the card to make a judgment if SGC had the min size right or not, given the huge upside if there was a reasonable chance it could regrade with a number grade. And if they concluded it was within spec, send it in again, don't sell it for a fraction of value. Not commenting on trimmed or not.

At least 1 employee of Goldin's does not know what Auth Min Size means so to think they might take the next step and measure the card is a huge stretch.

It is possible the consignor agreed with SGC's call or lacked the interest or sophistication to question SGC's conclusion. Most in the hobby who buy into the slab concept defer entirely to what the TPG concludes.

What cards end up as Min Size varies from grader to grader and grading company to grading company.

I do not like the Min Size "grade". At this point the grading companies have graded so many trimmed and altered cards why not just slap a number grade on a card that is small but has 100% legit cuts from the factory? As I understand it, the entire reason the graders do not do this is to eliminate the perception that they might have slabbed a trimmed card because the card is small. Sort of funny at this point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe the best thing would be a number grade with a qualifier for size?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

At least 1 employee of Goldin's does not know what Auth Min Size means so to think they might take the next step and measure the card is a huge stretch.

It is possible the consignor agreed with SGC's call or lacked the interest or sophistication to question SGC's conclusion. Most in the hobby who buy into the slab concept defer entirely to what the TPG concludes.

What cards end up as Min Size varies from grader to grader and grading company to grading company.

I do not like the Min Size "grade". At this point the grading companies have graded so many trimmed and altered cards why not just slap a number grade on a card that is small but has 100% legit cuts from the factory? As I understand it, the entire reason the graders do not do this is to eliminate the perception that they might have slabbed a trimmed card because the card is small. Sort of funny at this point.

One would hope their pre war/graded card expert would be the one to write up a card that significant, but I don't know how the business works. Anyhow, at least with hindsight, the prior consignor appears to have left a lot of money on the table. And it sure would be interesting to know who won and submitted it to PSA.

[oldjudge]

I'm pretty sure that Joe T did the second description. I wonder who did the first and if it wasn't Joe then why not? I doubt that anyone at Goldin knows anywhere near as much about vintage cards as Joe.
As to disclosure of the A, if I won the card in the current auction and found out after the fact that it had previously been in an A holder, that Goldin knew this before the auction ended and still failed to disclose this, I am beyond pissed. That would be a great way to potentially lose a deep pocketed bidder. Is there a law that Goldin has to do this--no. The hobby is the Wild West. However, should they disclose this information --I think the clear answer is yes.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I'm pretty sure that Joe T did the second description. I wonder who did the first and if it wasn't Joe then why not? I doubt that anyone at Goldin knows anywhere near as much about vintage cards as Joe.
As to disclosure of the A, if I won the card in the current auction and found out after the fact that it had previously been in an A holder, that Goldin knew this before the auction ended and still failed to disclose this, I am beyond pissed. That would be a great way to potentially lose a deep pocketed bidder. Is there a law that Goldin has to do this--no. The hobby is the Wild West. However, should they disclose this information --I think the clear answer is yes.

If Joe T, who is apparently admired here by everyone, did the PSA 6.5 write up then he had to have done the SGC Min Size write up. He has been there for more than 6 months. If he called this card trimmed based on SGC assessment, not sure he is the guy I would go to for advice in the realm of grading. You are less forgiving than I would be but if he also missed that he took in the SGC version of this card 3 months earlier, you might want to reconsider relying on him.

As rare as this card might be I don't think someone dropped the ball not connecting the two cards to one another and I just do not see this as a failure to disclose based on the info we have... which is next to nothing.

What if PSA is entirely right and this card is EXMT+ and it meets the size requirement and SGC was entirely wrong? Is disclosure needed? The only difference in opinion the two companies have is that one says it did not meet their size requirement and the other, who has another set of standards for size, says it does meet the requirements?

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

As to disclosure of the A, if I won the card in the current auction and found out after the fact that it had previously been in an A holder, that Goldin knew this before the auction ended and still failed to disclose this, I am beyond pissed. That would be a great way to potentially lose a deep pocketed bidder. Is there a law that Goldin has to do this--no. The hobby is the Wild West. However, should they disclose this information --I think the clear answer is yes.

+1