What mgrs/exec's/umps would you consider future HOFers?

[rhettyeakley]

add Tony LaRussa to the list (love 'em or hate 'em he has managed over 5,000 games and has won 2 World Series.)

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

add Tony LaRussa to the list (love 'em or hate 'em he has managed over 5,000 games and has won 2 World Series.)

Ahh Yes! I knew I was forgetting an obvious one...

[bcbgcbrcb]

Steinbrenner will likely get in during the next go-around for executives.

[carrigansghost]

how many managers have won two world series and are not in the HOF?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by carrigansghost

how many managers have won two world series and are not in the HOF?

Well, the first one off the top of my head would be Carrigan.

Danny Murtaugh, Ralph Houk, Cito Gaston, Tom Kelly, Torre and Larussa. Although, I'm pretty sure a few of these guys will drop off of this list.

[novakjr]

Now that I think about it, Frank Chance wasn't elected as a manager...Any chance this could happen, or would they just not even bother because he's already in as a player?

The inverse of that goes for Torre. If he were to get in as a manager, would they still pursue getting him in as a player?

[mcadams]

Of current and recent managers, here are my thoughts:
Joe Torre and Bobby Cox should both get in on their 1st shot on the ballott. Both are legends of the modern era and are considered irreplaceble by their respective ballclubs. No brainers. After those two, I think LaRussa should get in as well and I'd even throw Lou Piniella in the mix. Lastly, I think Mike Scioscia will win at least more championship before he's done and will be in consideration one day.

[Fred]

To me Torre gets in based on the number of WS rings but come on now, you could have probably put just about any manager in that place and won those WS titles. Take away Torre's Yankee tenure and you have an average manager. Torre, without a doubt, will be remembered as an old school class act. I suppose you could put him in the HOF for making it through 12 years in the Yankee organization with George Steinbrenner. Torre certainly gets my vote into Cooperstown based on his lifetime acheivements in the game - lets not forget that as a player he was a 9x All Star with an MVP to his accomplishments.

[tcdyess]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Steinbrenner will likely get in during the next go-around for executives.

The Boss!!!! He changed the game forever (good or bad), every player should pay homage to what he did for them.....

[novakjr]

Any thoughts on Ralph Houk, Billy Martin or Dusty Baker?

And I know this one will be a big stretch, but being a Cleveland fan I've gotta at least mention him. Mike Hargrove? From '94-'99 he was arguably "one of" the best managers in the league. I will say that I think his years in Baltimore and Seattle have hurt him a lot though...

Which also leads me to one executive, John Hart? Those 90's Indians teams he put together were incredible...Sure no World Series wins, but 2 appearances, and 870-681 under Hart. He was also the Sporting News Executive of the Year in '94 and '95.. Now add a 3rd WS appearance while the Senior Adviser of Baseball Operations for the Rangers... This guy had an undeniable knack for scouting, whether it be through the draft or in trades for prospects..

[Wite3]

I always found it interesting that RC of Hall of Fame Managers (or cards in general of HOF managers) seem to be cheaper than their contemporary counterparts (with the exception of possibly Connie Mack). Managing in the majors and winning consistently has to be very difficult. Especially since the 1950s when managers and owners started splitting the ownership roles (Mack stuck around a long time because he owned the team)...Imagine a team keeping a manager after 13 losing seasons (also had a run of 10 losing seasons as well)?

Joshua

[Chris-Counts]

As far as I'm concerned, there are already too many suits in the Hall of Fame. As for Steinbrenner, it would warm my heart if he never got in. As for players deserving of induction, I say open the floodgates and start with Minnie Minoso ...

http://minnieminoso.blogspot.com/

[ksfarmboy]

Since nobody has mentioned any umpires here's a fellow Kansan that I'd like to see get in. He's already in the Basketball Hall of fame and umpired more than a few baseball games. Ernest Quigley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_C._Quigley

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

add Tony LaRussa to the list (love 'em or hate 'em he has managed over 5,000 games and has won 2 World Series.)

I know I'm in the minority here... But if ever there was a Manager who should be scrutinized for the use of steroids, it's LaRussa. Were any other teams in history more rampantly "using" than the 1990s Athletics or 2000s Cardinals?

At worst, he encouraged its usage, and at best he "turned a blind eye". Few could argue (with a straight face) that LaRussa was unaware of what was going on. If players like McGwire, Palmeiro and even Bagwell (who was never actually incriminated) are receiving incredibly low vote totals, shouldn't it stand to reason that LaRussa would as well?

I know he's been a very successful Manager over the years, but seems to me that the same rules should apply. You can say he's managed over 5,000 games, but McGwire's hit a whole bunch of Home Runs (playing for both of LaRussa's teams) and he's not getting in anytime soon.

I'm anticipating lots of dissenting opinions on this, but that's my 2 cents on LaRussa.

[Kenny Cole]

That's an interesting position on LaRussa. I'm probably in the minority in terms of steroid usage, as I don't get nearly as exorcised about it as some do (which is not meant to derail the thread and start the tired old debate about that issue), but I do agree that whatever the rules, they ought to apply across the board, to include managers, owners, executives and players. If players are to be penalized, so too should be those who facilitated usage and/or profited while knowing about it but turning a blind eye. That would obviously include every owner and manager, as well as the esteemed commissioner.

LOL, I gues the net result of that positon is almost no one associated with MLB in the 90's or 00's should be elected. I'm guessing that's not too likely to happen.

Kenny Cole

[AndyG09]

Marvin Miller should already be in the HOF. I hope he is alive when he finally gets his due.

Would have to imagine Bud Selig will get a plaque someday as well. Love him or hate him, he has quite a bit of longevity and that seems to carry a lot of weight.

Best,

Andy

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I know I'm in the minority here... But if ever there was a Manager who should be scrutinized for the use of steroids, it's LaRussa. Were any other teams in history more rampantly "using" than the 1990s Athletics or 2000s Cardinals?

At worst, he encouraged its usage, and at best he "turned a blind eye". Few could argue (with a straight face) that LaRussa was unaware of what was going on. If players like McGwire, Palmeiro and even Bagwell (who was never actually incriminated) are receiving incredibly low vote totals, shouldn't it stand to reason that LaRussa would as well?

I know he's been a very successful Manager over the years, but seems to me that the same rules should apply. You can say he's managed over 5,000 games, but McGwire's hit a whole bunch of Home Runs (playing for both of LaRussa's teams) and he's not getting in anytime soon.

I'm anticipating lots of dissenting opinions on this, but that's my 2 cents on LaRussa.

I agree with you 110%

Chris

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I know I'm in the minority here... But if ever there was a Manager who should be scrutinized for the use of steroids, it's LaRussa. Were any other teams in history more rampantly "using" than the 1990s Athletics or 2000s Cardinals?

At worst, he encouraged its usage, and at best he "turned a blind eye". Few could argue (with a straight face) that LaRussa was unaware of what was going on. If players like McGwire, Palmeiro and even Bagwell (who was never actually incriminated) are receiving incredibly low vote totals, shouldn't it stand to reason that LaRussa would as well?

I know he's been a very successful Manager over the years, but seems to me that the same rules should apply. You can say he's managed over 5,000 games, but McGwire's hit a whole bunch of Home Runs (playing for both of LaRussa's teams) and he's not getting in anytime soon.

I'm anticipating lots of dissenting opinions on this, but that's my 2 cents on LaRussa.

I completely agree with this line of thinking. Of the 3 modern managers we've mostly discussed here, Larussa AND Torre should both be questioned. Alongside your Big Mac and Palmeiro points, there were lots of Yankees on "the list" as well. Andy Pettitte, Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Chuck Knoblauch, Jason Grimsley, Glenallen Hill, etc. etc. etc. In my opinion, the only HOF manager from this era who DIDNT have a steroid problem on his team was Bobby Cox.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I know I'm in the minority here... But if ever there was a Manager who should be scrutinized for the use of steroids, it's LaRussa. Were any other teams in history more rampantly "using" than the 1990s Athletics or 2000s Cardinals?

At worst, he encouraged its usage, and at best he "turned a blind eye". Few could argue (with a straight face) that LaRussa was unaware of what was going on. If players like McGwire, Palmeiro and even Bagwell (who was never actually incriminated) are receiving incredibly low vote totals, shouldn't it stand to reason that LaRussa would as well?

I know he's been a very successful Manager over the years, but seems to me that the same rules should apply. You can say he's managed over 5,000 games, but McGwire's hit a whole bunch of Home Runs (playing for both of LaRussa's teams) and he's not getting in anytime soon.

I'm anticipating lots of dissenting opinions on this, but that's my 2 cents on LaRussa.

Agree with your point philosophically. Add Dusty Baker to that list IMO also--with Bonds' head getting bigger almost by the day (as well as the rest of that juiced bod) and Bonds seemingly defying the laws of nature in getting incredibility better just at the time he oridinarily would have been entering baseball old age, the situation should have presented quite an ethical dilemma to the former Giants skipper, but obviously did not. Imagine the fallout if Baker had told Bonds that he could not in good conscience write his name into the lineup (an absolutely delicious thought to those of us who are not exactly Barry Bonds fans)! In actual practice, however, both Baker and LaRussa probably found themselves caught between a rock and a hard place, and naturally believed they had little alternative than to keep writing their most productive players' names into the lineup. I have the same problem putting either of them into the HOF that I do with a number of players from that era--according to Kirk Radomski (former Mets clubhouse attendant, and central figure in the Mitchell report)'s book, "Bases Loaded," heavy steroid use was simply the culture during that time. While Bonds and McGwire were among those who embraced it, they also were probably two of the very hardest working players of the time (a lot of people think all they had to do was inject their butts, but the kind of results they got, both in terms of muscle mass and enhanced hitting performance, were also directly related to hard workouts, watching video and studying pitchers, and, at least in McGwire's case, the evolution of his swing into one incredibly short, compact and lightning quick stroke!). And I could not and still cannot stand Bonds, but there is no denying how incredibly well he played the hitter/pitcher game. He could read pitches and pitchers' thinking as well as anyone, and when he did get a pitch to hit, he almost never missed it! I'm certainly not saying these two should be HOF'ers, because there is no question their achievements cannot be directly compared to their predecessors whose performance was not artificially enhanced. I honestly don't know what to do with them or their peers, who were the best of that era, unless Cooperstown opens a Cheaters' Wing! But do we move Gaylord Perry's plaque to that wing, if it is opened??? It's true that there's always been cheating in baseball, from stealing and relaying signs by a confederate stationed in the bleachers to amphetamines to corked bats (I've got an excellent game-used example of the latter, originating from one of the leading sluggers of the '60's). Are some forms of cheating OK, and others not? Or are we into a really gray area, which is why I say I really do not know what to do with these guys?

With regard to Jim Leyland, he knows how to treat men with respect and players like to play for him, but please, PLEASE let us not include him for HOF consideration. Here in Detroit, we don't believe he ever really learned to make out a lineup. He doesn't seem to understand that putting your least productive hitters near the top of the lineup is absolutely counter-productive, because they get more at bats than those penned in lower in the order, and falls in love with certain players who have rarely been productive, playing them 3-4 times as often as he should, simply because they are equally bad at any number of postions in the field--can anyone say "Ryan Rugburn (oops--Rayburn)?" He also has a knack for resting young players just when they're really starting to hit their stride, then seems to be mystified when they've lost that groove after several needless games on the bench. He came up with what I call a "SALL," meaning a silly-ass Leyland lineup, just the other day, and when my wife asked why I wasn't watching the game, I told her that he had presented the lineup to the umpires at the start of the game, and they started laughing so hard they couldn't stop, and had to call the game!

Great thread, though.

Larry

PS: I would put Torre and Bobby Cox in the HOF in a heartbeat!

[perezfan]

Terrific post, Larry.... very well thought out, and nicely articulated. I would put both Cox and Torre in there as well (and agree that Baker is a resounding "no"!)

[HexsHeroes]

.

Lefty O'Doul for the early contributions he made
towards the growth of baseball in Japan ?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

.

Lefty O'Doul for the early contributions he made
towards the growth of baseball in Japan ?

I think someday that may very well be possible, especially with the large amount of Japanese players that are playing in the MLB. There are a few players that I would put into a "pioneer" category in regards to possible admission. O'doul and Curt Flood immediately come to mind. I believe Flood WILL eventually get in on the veterans ballot. Every player out there knows his contribution in regards to free agency, and that he pretty much gave up his career for it. I'd imagine the more modern players that get in, the better his chances.

Now back to managers, I agree about Baker(I threw him out there for discussion), I really don't think he'll get in. Any thoughts on Ralph Houk or Danny Murtaugh?

How about some owners for discussion. What about Phillip Wrigley? John Henry(I know it's early)? John Galbreath? Ted Turner?

Here's an interesting ranking on owners..Aside from anyone I mentioned, are there any thoughts about anyone on this list?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...in-mlb-history