The Oaks Show and SGC Grading

wonkaticket · #1 11-16-2011, 12:21 PM

Danny I feel your pain brother a thousand plus cards later and 5k+ lighter in the pocket and I too am left scratching my head on some of the grades.

Look I get it I’m sure under any loop little tiny wrinkles can be seen but….have we really come to this that we are now picking cards based upon microscopic flaws unseen to the naked eye? I know I’m not…I challenge you to find better examples of these cards below. Flip or not these are some of the most pack fresh cards you will see in regard to Obaks especially the 1909’s.

Now don’t get me wrong I got lots of 7’s and 6’s and 5’s but I have to chuckle when I have 3’s & 4’s that are nicer than the 5’s and the 6’s that were returned.

I agree harsh grading isn’t good grading. I think holdings cards 100+ years old to standards of modern multi produced cards is and has always been a bit silly.

This whole wacky system has only amplified the trimmed card phenomenon. Look I know trimming has been going on awhile to guys like Copeland back in the day. But once grading came in and opened up the world to a bigger buying pool for crazy graded cards then it was razors away.

Don’t believe me for those of you who are newer to the hobby how often do you see oversized cards like below now?

Not often but they were very common when I collected now they are the black rhino of the card world.

When I think of all the amazing specimens that have been hacked, soaked and shucked over the years in the pursuit of a flip it makes me kind of sad.

Cheers,

John

pgellis · #2 11-16-2011, 12:56 PM

Wow John!
Were those Obaks sent in all at the same time? If they were, then I assume they were all being graded by the same person. How can there be that much difference (SGC70 to SGC50) with some of those? Some of those 50s look just as good as the 70s, if not better.

I collect only SGC graded T206s, as opposed to PSA, because I like the way they look in the holder. I have only sent in raw cards once or twice to SGC and have been very disappointed with the grades. Several were "A" for trimming when I was about as sure as I could be on one of the cards that it was never trimmed. Oh well.

As someone else said recently, I wish the grading standards were just "U" for Unaltered and "A" for Altered......or something like that and then let the buyer decide how much they like the card.

The only reason I buy graded cards now is that I buy about 99% of my cards online (eBay, BST, auction houses, etc.) and the first several that I bought online raw, were Trimmed. Therefore, I needed a TPG to tell me it was unaltered before I was going to send money to someone on the other side of the country.

wonkaticket · #3 11-16-2011, 01:49 PM

"Wow John! Were those Obaks sent in all at the same time? If they were, then I assume they were all being graded by the same person. How can there be that much difference (SGC70 to SGC50) with some of those? Some of those 50s look just as good as the 70s, if not better"

Phil, I'm still tring to figure this out myself.....I wish I knew and yes I dropped off over 1000+ cards all at the same time.

Fun, fun, fun...

Runscott · #4 11-16-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

"Wow John! Were those Obaks sent in all at the same time? If they were, then I assume they were all being graded by the same person. How can there be that much difference (SGC70 to SGC50) with some of those? Some of those 50s look just as good as the 70s, if not better"

Phil, I'm still tring to figure this out myself.....I wish I knew and yes I dropped off over 1000+ cards all at the same time.

Fun, fun, fun...

I've had the same experience with SGC. In past discussions I think the board consensus was that large submitters and dealers were simply treated better. Same for PSA - probably even moreso, plus some were able to get trimmed cards put in holders. No telling how many of those are circulating now - another good reason never to crack a NM PSA card. But checking the NM PSA cards in the current Legendary auction, you don't have to worry about that - many of them even have slightly rounded corners (Cobb bat off, for instance)

I was hoping the situation had changed, but it's still a wreck dealing with slabbed cards.

kcohen · #5 11-16-2011, 04:47 PM

Those Obaks are beautiful! Under sufficiently high magnification, most any card looks like crap.

GasHouseGang · #6 11-16-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcohen

Those Obaks are beautiful! Under sufficiently high magnification, most any card looks like crap.

They must have used an electron microscope! John, those Obaks are beautiful.

Cardboard Junkie · #7 11-16-2011, 06:23 PM

All TPG Companys are a CANCER ON THE HOBBY!

Raw Rules Graded Drools!

Hey! Jim Orlando! Give this man his 900 Bucks back!!

Dave.

t206hound · #8 11-17-2011, 04:57 PM

I only collect T206s and have submitted a few hundred to SGC in the past 18 months. I am pretty good about being able to determine what grade a card is going to get. I'd say 70-80% accurate to the grade given, and 98 percentish on being within one grade. That said, I typically submit cards that will yield a grade of 30-60.

Anyway, since I've been following this thread I decided to go back and look at SGCs grading scale (http://sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm). Based on the guidelines for each grade as listed on the page, I tend to agree that they are grading very harshly. Specifically, I'll point out:

It is possible for a card with pinholes AND writing to get a 30. When was the last time you saw a 30 with EITHER of those characteristics?
It is possible for a card with a light hairline crease or a light TEAR to get a 50. I have NUMEROUS crease-free 40s in my collection.
It is possible for a card with ONE very light surface crease (one side only) to get a 60.

While I've been able to accurately predict my grades, I'm now very confused as to whether or not the graders are actually using these guidelines when evaluating cards. I know in my last submission that I had two cards knocked down from 40 to 30 between the initial grading and shipment. One was this Delehanty that I recently sold. No pinhole, no writing... heck, no creases, but it's a 30. Sure, rounded corners, a little scratching on the front and perhaps some back staining. I admit it's not a 60... but is it really a 30 according to SGCs own scale?

Runscott · #9 11-17-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t206hound

It is possible for a card with ONE very light surface crease (one side only) to get a 60.

Not possible. This Landry was almost mint, but had a very, ver slight surface wrinkle on the back - I could not even see it. I took the card to a PSA dealer and he noticed it. So I sent it to SGC on my own...and they noticed it. Automatic 50. You will never see a prettier '55 Bowman - I bought this and several others raw, and all were pack-fresh. The wrinkle does not show up in the scan - I had to describe it when selling the card...$55

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