The Oaks Show and SGC Grading

kcohen · #1 11-16-2011, 04:47 PM

Those Obaks are beautiful! Under sufficiently high magnification, most any card looks like crap.

GasHouseGang · #2 11-16-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcohen

Those Obaks are beautiful! Under sufficiently high magnification, most any card looks like crap.

They must have used an electron microscope! John, those Obaks are beautiful.

Cardboard Junkie · #3 11-16-2011, 06:23 PM

All TPG Companys are a CANCER ON THE HOBBY!

Raw Rules Graded Drools!

Hey! Jim Orlando! Give this man his 900 Bucks back!!

Dave.

rdixon1208 · #4 11-16-2011, 07:23 PM

I've been hanging around here for three years now and this is the first thread that I've read where a collector tells another collector that my collection "will trash yours". I don't care who you're friends with or how long you've been in the hobby...this is really lame.

Robert Dixon

Vol · #5 11-17-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

I've been hanging around here for three years now and this is the first thread that I've read where a collector tells another collector that my collection "will trash yours". I don't care who you're friends with or how long you've been in the hobby...this is really lame.

Robert Dixon

+1
Couldnt agree more.

tiger8mush · #6 11-17-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

I've been hanging around here for three years now and this is the first thread that I've read where a collector tells another collector that my collection "will trash yours". I don't care who you're friends with or how long you've been in the hobby...this is really lame.

Robert Dixon

beware of challenging the establishment, as you may be labeled the "d" word!

And I believe the Brucii often teased the smaller fish in the pond before challenging them to fisticuffs. Surely u were around for that!

Vegas-guy · #7 11-16-2011, 07:27 PM

Its sad to hear that so many people hate the way the hobby has gone with TPG co. I would love to have nice "raw" cards but with 99% of cards being sold online now how, where, and who can you trust now days for quality "raw" cards??? Short of cracking every card out I don't see myself spending big $$$ on high grade/big name cards...

And then I don't want to crack them in case I want to sell or trade, then the next person is thinking the same thing, is this card trimmed, alt. etc

Runscott · #8 11-17-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas-guy

Its sad to hear that so many people hate the way the hobby has gone with TPG co. I would love to have nice "raw" cards but with 99% of cards being sold online now how, where, and who can you trust now days for quality "raw" cards??? Short of cracking every card out I don't see myself spending big $$$ on high grade/big name cards...

And then I don't want to crack them in case I want to sell or trade, then the next person is thinking the same thing, is this card trimmed, alt. etc

It's a real conundrum these days. You feel you have to buy high-grade in slabs, yet you can't crack them out for the reason you just stated. And should they trust the card? They might send it back to the slabber and find out you bought it slabbed and trimmed!

Speaking of which, let's say you buy a PSA-slabbed card as NM, crack it and send it to SGC, and they tell you it was trimmed. Are you just simply screwed?

Leon · #9 11-17-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Are you just simply screwed?

Simply- yes.

bunst · #10 11-17-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

It's a real conundrum these days. You feel you have to buy high-grade in slabs, yet you can't crack them out for the reason you just stated. And should they trust the card? They might send it back to the slabber and find out you bought it slabbed and trimmed!

Speaking of which, let's say you buy a PSA-slabbed card as NM, crack it and send it to SGC, and they tell you it was trimmed. Are you just simply screwed?

Not necessarily. Send it back to PSA and get it graded again.

Jaybird · #11 11-17-2011, 04:22 PM

ALL High grade tobacco and candy cards scare me unless I know exactly where they come from. The money is just too high to assume that the doctoring isn't rampant. TPG slab doesn't ease my mind at all; so to me it doesn't help or hurt and I wouldn't mind it all if it was gone. In fact, if it adds value to put a 7 or 8 on the card then it will only increase the desire to doctor and slab, thereby increasing fraud in the hobby. If the companies were truly able to tell which were doctored and which weren't and cared to be consistent, then there might be an argument but since they get it wrong so often...

That's why I'm happy to collect in mid-grade VG-VGEX-EX.

t206hound · #12 11-17-2011, 04:57 PM

I only collect T206s and have submitted a few hundred to SGC in the past 18 months. I am pretty good about being able to determine what grade a card is going to get. I'd say 70-80% accurate to the grade given, and 98 percentish on being within one grade. That said, I typically submit cards that will yield a grade of 30-60.

Anyway, since I've been following this thread I decided to go back and look at SGCs grading scale (http://sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm). Based on the guidelines for each grade as listed on the page, I tend to agree that they are grading very harshly. Specifically, I'll point out:

It is possible for a card with pinholes AND writing to get a 30. When was the last time you saw a 30 with EITHER of those characteristics?
It is possible for a card with a light hairline crease or a light TEAR to get a 50. I have NUMEROUS crease-free 40s in my collection.
It is possible for a card with ONE very light surface crease (one side only) to get a 60.

While I've been able to accurately predict my grades, I'm now very confused as to whether or not the graders are actually using these guidelines when evaluating cards. I know in my last submission that I had two cards knocked down from 40 to 30 between the initial grading and shipment. One was this Delehanty that I recently sold. No pinhole, no writing... heck, no creases, but it's a 30. Sure, rounded corners, a little scratching on the front and perhaps some back staining. I admit it's not a 60... but is it really a 30 according to SGCs own scale?

Runscott · #13 11-17-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t206hound

It is possible for a card with ONE very light surface crease (one side only) to get a 60.

Not possible. This Landry was almost mint, but had a very, ver slight surface wrinkle on the back - I could not even see it. I took the card to a PSA dealer and he noticed it. So I sent it to SGC on my own...and they noticed it. Automatic 50. You will never see a prettier '55 Bowman - I bought this and several others raw, and all were pack-fresh. The wrinkle does not show up in the scan - I had to describe it when selling the card...$55

Vegas-guy · #14 11-17-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Not possible. This Landry was almost mint, but had a very, ver slight surface wrinkle on the back - I could not even see it. I took the card to a PSA dealer and he noticed it. So I sent it to SGC on my own...and they noticed it. Automatic 50. You will never see a prettier '55 Bowman - I bought this and several others raw, and all were pack-fresh. The wrinkle does not show up in the scan - I had to describe it when selling the card...$55

Wow Great looking card for that grade!

ullmandds · #15 11-17-2011, 06:12 PM

I'm with Jay on this one...I collect lower-mid grade...and am super happy...I am very suspicious of most high grade cards that are over 100 years old.

If one were to create a short film documenting the life of a T206 card from the time it was pulled from a pack of cigs back in 1909...how boring would the film be if the instant the card was pulled it weas placed in between the pages of book where it stayed for 100 years...B-O-R-I-N-G!!!! I like my cards with a story!!!!

On a different note...I think it's a lot easier to be consistent when it comes to grading T206's as there are so many of them out there to compare to. Granted there are size differences...but not nearly as high a % as some other types of cards...which exist in much smaller #'s and may be printed on different types of stock more prone to deterioration.

It drives me crazy to open the SCD and look for prices of vintage cards only to find NRMT, EX, VG as options..when most cards available are in lesser grades...and practically none exist in these higher grades.

bobbyw8469 · #16 11-17-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Not necessarily. Send it back to PSA and get it graded again.

How about when you crack out an SGC graded card and PSA says it is trimmed?????

vintagerookies51 · #17 11-17-2011, 06:30 PM

This is partially why I collect low-grade cards. I've never had a card that would grade a 2 or higher, so I don't have to worry about what the grade gets

WillowGrove · #18 11-25-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

If one were to create a short film documenting the life of a T206 card from the time it was pulled from a pack of cigs back in 1909...how boring would the film be if the instant the card was pulled it weas placed in between the pages of book where it stayed for 100 years...B-O-R-I-N-G!!!! I like my cards with a story!!!!

On a different note...I think it's a lot easier to be consistent when it comes to grading T206's as there are so many of them out there to compare to. Granted there are size differences...but not nearly as high a % as some other types of cards...which exist in much smaller #'s and may be printed on different types of stock more prone to deterioration.

It drives me crazy to open the SCD and look for prices of vintage cards only to find NRMT, EX, VG as options..when most cards available are in lesser grades...and practically none exist in these higher grades.

+1 to all points Ullmandds!

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