Nobody cares about ebay shill bidding but

arexcrooke · #1 09-02-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

So it's ok to say I am too busy to do my job? The person running the auction benifits by the Auction price as much as the person who consigns the Item. It is up to him to keep the auctions fair.

Jonathan Sterling

Then explain how someone who runs the enormous amount of auctions he does can combat shill bidding?
Ill wait for a while because I'm not sure you nor anyone else can figure out how he can.

vintagetoppsguy · #2 09-02-2013, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arexcrooke

Then explain how someone who runs the enormous amount of auctions he does can combat shill bidding?
Ill wait for a while because I'm not sure you nor anyone else can figure out how he can.

I'll tell you one thing he can do. He can block shill bidders when the evidence is pointed out to him. He can also block them as consignors. I guess money trumps that though, right?

Besides, it's not anybody's responsibility to explain to Rick how to stop shill bidding on his auctions. He's the owner, it's his responsibility. And the excuse of time constraints, ignorance or anything else for that matter is not valid.

arexcrooke · #3 09-02-2013, 08:55 PM

I agree he can block it when brought to his attention. Hopefully he will, is, and does so in the future.

I find your second statement interesting.
Last week in the card doctor thread you were talking about how to improve the hobby by outing card doctors, shill bidders etc. (which btw I agree with) but yet you, in this thread, put the onus squarely on Rick to do just what you were yelling from the mountain tops about.

I think it is all of our jobs to help clean up and preserve this hobby of ours.

Please don't take my comments as being accusatory or combative. They are neither. I haven't posted here much because I'm newer to cards. But this topic and the one you and others were discussing earlier last week is very much like a topic that was of enormous importance in comics starting about 8 years ago when such things as trimming, pressing, CPR (crack press and resub) online sellers shenanigans etc came to light. I was on the front lines then and so I have some knowledge of what is appearing to be brought to the front via this board.

vintagetoppsguy · #4 09-02-2013, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arexcrooke

I find your second statement interesting.
Last week in the card doctor thread you were talking about how to improve the hobby by outing card doctors, shill bidders etc. (which btw I agree with) but yet you, in this thread, put the onus squarely on Rick to do just what you were yelling from the mountain tops about.

The onus is on Rick. It's his business, it's his responsibility to combat shill bidding. When he doesn't, then others have the right to point it out when we see it. Is that really difficult to understand?

arexcrooke · #5 09-02-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The onus is on Rick. It's his business, it's his responsibility to combat shill bidding. When he doesn't, then others have the right to point it out when we see it. Is that really difficult to understand?

Never said it was difficult to understand. Is it difficult for you to understand that just talking about it doesn't do much more than create noise? That if it is to be fixed then steps need to be taken to address it?

Peter_Spaeth · #6 09-02-2013, 09:15 PM

Law enforcement reads the forum; one can hope.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 09-02-2013, 09:16 PM

Guy only paid $100 extra, no biggie.

m***m( 2 ) Retracted: US $1,461.00
Bid: Sep-02-13 18:49:15 PDT
Retracted: Sep-02-13 18:50:22 PDT

botn · #8 09-02-2013, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Law enforcement reads the forum; one can hope.

Yeah I would not hold your breath...If eBay received enough complaints about the bid retraction history I am sure they would look into it and would apply pressure to sellers who are using or allowing this to take place.

Question for the lawyers...eBay earns a fee based on the final sale's price so if they look the other way on this type of shill bidding, if one were to sue could they be named in the suit? I figure for selfish reason they might want to step in and attempt to prevent this type of bidding activity.

vintagetoppsguy · #9 09-02-2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arexcrooke

Never said it was difficult to understand. Is it difficult for you to understand that just talking about it doesn't do much more than create noise? That if it is to be fixed then steps need to be taken to address it?

I disagree. Talking about it let's others know about Rick's character and they can make up their own mind if they want to do business with him or not.

Rick was made aware over a year ago that Joe Pankiewicz was shilling his own auctions. He chose to do nothing about it and still accept consignments from Joe, and Joe continues to shill his auctions. Arex, what does that tell you about Rick's character?

Peter_Spaeth · #10 09-02-2013, 09:26 PM

Member Id: 2***2( 966Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $1,436.00
Sep-02-13 18:13:34 PDT

Member Id: m***m( 2 ) US $1,411.00
Sep-02-13 18:48:23 PDT

Member Id: m***m( 2 ) US $1,361.00
Sep-02-13 18:46:28 PDT

Member Id: e***7( 1291Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $1,311.00
Sep-02-13 18:45:30 PDT

Member Id: 2***2( 966Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $1,295.95
Sep-02-13 17:32:25 PDT

2 feeback guy ran him up as high as he could go, then retracted his bid at 1461. Nice.

olrac44 · #11 09-02-2013, 09:27 PM

I just can't see how you can expect Rick to have the resources to research each and every one of his auctions to try and detect shill bidding?

If anybody should have the resources it would be ebay but they don't want you to know bidding information as is apparent by masking ebay id's within the bidding activity.

At some point bidders can do their 5 minutes of due diligence then make their own decision on whether they should bid or not.

vintagetoppsguy · #12 09-02-2013, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olrac44

I just can't see how you can expect Rick to have the resources to research each and every one of his auctions to try and detect shill bidding?

Why are you defending Rick? You're right, nobody realistically expects him to have the resources to research each and every auction. But he does nothing when it's pointed out to him. How can you defend that???

Again, Rick was made aware over a year ago that Joe Pankiewicz was shilling his own auctions. He chose to do nothing about it and still accept consignments from Joe, and Joe continues to shill his auctions. I'll ask you the same question, What does that tell you about Rick's character?

Peter_Spaeth · #13 09-02-2013, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olrac44

I just can't see how you can expect Rick to have the resources to research each and every one of his auctions to try and detect shill bidding?

If anybody should have the resources it would be ebay but they don't want you to know bidding information as is apparent by masking ebay id's within the bidding activity.

At some point bidders can do their 5 minutes of due diligence then make their own decision on whether they should bid or not.

Because it's been called to his attention time and again here and on CU. And what is he, the CEO of Microsoft that his business is so big he can't possibly know what's going on? Please.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 09-02-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The onus is on Rick. It's his business, it's his responsibility to combat shill bidding. When he doesn't, then others have the right to point it out when we see it. Is that really difficult to understand?

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

the-illini · #15 09-02-2013, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

Why would they ever try to fix something that generates more $$$ for them at no risk?

calvindog · #16 09-02-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

Way too much smoke with this guy; it's really impossible to believe he's not either involved or purposely looking the other way. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

bobbyw8469 · #17 09-02-2013, 09:49 PM

That's it boys!! That card is your record holder, pricewise! Now, not the best looking '8' of all time, but it was bid up like it was. Congrats to the winner.

WhenItWasAHobby · #18 09-02-2013, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

A recent sighting?

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