Nobody cares about ebay shill bidding but

bigfanNY · #1 09-02-2013, 08:31 PM

So it's ok to say I am too busy to do my job? The person running the auction benifits by the Auction price as much as the person who consigns the Item. It is up to him to keep the auctions fair.

Jonathan Sterling

HRBAKER · #2 09-02-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

So it's ok to say I am too busy to do my job? The person running the auction benifits by the Auction price as much as the person who consigns the Item. It is up to him to keep the auctions fair.

Jonathan Sterling

Stop now, you're making too much sense.

nolemmings · #3 09-02-2013, 08:42 PM

Agreed, and if he's pulling in that much $$$, he damn sure can afford to pay people to come up with solutions.

arexcrooke · #4 09-02-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Agreed, and if he's pulling in that much $$$, he damn sure can afford to pay people to come up with solutions.

Again
How would you begin to combat the issue?
And I would dare say its an issue with any large consignment seller or auction house.

T206DK · #5 10-03-2013, 07:16 AM

LOL, PROBSTEIN strikes again ! why do legit bidders still bid on his auctions ?

bigfanNY · #6 09-02-2013, 09:02 PM

No need to wait. You ask consigners to sign an agreement that says if the shill the auction that he will refund the bidders money past the first bid from the consigner and charge them full commission on the auction. Then they will be banned from bidding or consigneing to his future auctions. And yes he is large enough and this is important enough that he or one of his employees should look at each auctions results.
If enough shill bidding could be proved to EBAY they would have no alternative but to ban him from their site. Then everybody loses. But he has to run a fair site if he cant then ultimatly he will lose the ability to run his business on EBAY.
Based on the information posted here I would never consign or bid on any of his auctions and I am not happy saying that because I have things to sell and he gets decent prices, and many times he posts items that I would like to own.

arexcrooke · #7 09-02-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

No need to wait. You ask consigners to sign an agreement that says if the shill the auction that he will refund the bidders money past the first bid from the consigner and charge them full commission on the auction. Then they will be banned from bidding or consigneing to his future auctions. And yes he is large enough and this is important enough that he or one of his employees should look at each auctions results.
If enough shill bidding could be proved to EBAY they would have no alternative but to ban him from their site. Then everybody loses. But he has to run a fair site if he cant then ultimatly he will lose the ability to run his business on EBAY.
Based on the information posted here I would never consign or bid on any of his auctions and I am not happy saying that because I have things to sell and he gets decent prices, and many times he posts items that I would like to own.

Fair enough points and well explained.
I don't think Rock is involved in the shilling. I do hope it can be addressed.

arexcrooke · #8 09-02-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

So it's ok to say I am too busy to do my job? The person running the auction benifits by the Auction price as much as the person who consigns the Item. It is up to him to keep the auctions fair.

Jonathan Sterling

Then explain how someone who runs the enormous amount of auctions he does can combat shill bidding?
Ill wait for a while because I'm not sure you nor anyone else can figure out how he can.

vintagetoppsguy · #9 09-02-2013, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arexcrooke

Then explain how someone who runs the enormous amount of auctions he does can combat shill bidding?
Ill wait for a while because I'm not sure you nor anyone else can figure out how he can.

I'll tell you one thing he can do. He can block shill bidders when the evidence is pointed out to him. He can also block them as consignors. I guess money trumps that though, right?

Besides, it's not anybody's responsibility to explain to Rick how to stop shill bidding on his auctions. He's the owner, it's his responsibility. And the excuse of time constraints, ignorance or anything else for that matter is not valid.

arexcrooke · #10 09-02-2013, 08:55 PM

I agree he can block it when brought to his attention. Hopefully he will, is, and does so in the future.

I find your second statement interesting.
Last week in the card doctor thread you were talking about how to improve the hobby by outing card doctors, shill bidders etc. (which btw I agree with) but yet you, in this thread, put the onus squarely on Rick to do just what you were yelling from the mountain tops about.

I think it is all of our jobs to help clean up and preserve this hobby of ours.

Please don't take my comments as being accusatory or combative. They are neither. I haven't posted here much because I'm newer to cards. But this topic and the one you and others were discussing earlier last week is very much like a topic that was of enormous importance in comics starting about 8 years ago when such things as trimming, pressing, CPR (crack press and resub) online sellers shenanigans etc came to light. I was on the front lines then and so I have some knowledge of what is appearing to be brought to the front via this board.

vintagetoppsguy · #11 09-02-2013, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arexcrooke

I find your second statement interesting.
Last week in the card doctor thread you were talking about how to improve the hobby by outing card doctors, shill bidders etc. (which btw I agree with) but yet you, in this thread, put the onus squarely on Rick to do just what you were yelling from the mountain tops about.

The onus is on Rick. It's his business, it's his responsibility to combat shill bidding. When he doesn't, then others have the right to point it out when we see it. Is that really difficult to understand?

arexcrooke · #12 09-02-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The onus is on Rick. It's his business, it's his responsibility to combat shill bidding. When he doesn't, then others have the right to point it out when we see it. Is that really difficult to understand?

Never said it was difficult to understand. Is it difficult for you to understand that just talking about it doesn't do much more than create noise? That if it is to be fixed then steps need to be taken to address it?

Peter_Spaeth · #13 09-02-2013, 09:15 PM

Law enforcement reads the forum; one can hope.

vintagetoppsguy · #14 09-02-2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arexcrooke

Never said it was difficult to understand. Is it difficult for you to understand that just talking about it doesn't do much more than create noise? That if it is to be fixed then steps need to be taken to address it?

I disagree. Talking about it let's others know about Rick's character and they can make up their own mind if they want to do business with him or not.

Rick was made aware over a year ago that Joe Pankiewicz was shilling his own auctions. He chose to do nothing about it and still accept consignments from Joe, and Joe continues to shill his auctions. Arex, what does that tell you about Rick's character?

olrac44 · #15 09-02-2013, 09:27 PM

I just can't see how you can expect Rick to have the resources to research each and every one of his auctions to try and detect shill bidding?

If anybody should have the resources it would be ebay but they don't want you to know bidding information as is apparent by masking ebay id's within the bidding activity.

At some point bidders can do their 5 minutes of due diligence then make their own decision on whether they should bid or not.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 09-02-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The onus is on Rick. It's his business, it's his responsibility to combat shill bidding. When he doesn't, then others have the right to point it out when we see it. Is that really difficult to understand?

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

the-illini · #17 09-02-2013, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

Why would they ever try to fix something that generates more $$$ for them at no risk?

calvindog · #18 09-02-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

Way too much smoke with this guy; it's really impossible to believe he's not either involved or purposely looking the other way. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

WhenItWasAHobby · #19 09-02-2013, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His auctions and PWCC are full of bidders with unbelievable numbers of retractions. If they are unaware of this they are playing ostrich.

A recent sighting?

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