Clown on ebay

[hunky-dory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah I have heard that. I have heard it stated that they are not fabricating their own holders, but one has to wonder.

I was recently informed by one of the major auction houses that a case of PSA slabs was stolen directly from PSA. So that could be it. It also could be an inside job.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by hunky-dory

I was recently informed by one of the major auction houses that a case of PSA slabs was stolen directly from PSA. So that could be it. It also could be an inside job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How many in a case? If true this could be fun.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many in a case? If true this could be fun.

Peter, I told you recently that slabs and flips make they're way out the back door at PSA. People think I'm crazy, don't believe me or just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=218799
Post #270

OK, whatever. Don't believe it. I don't care. But look at his other thread in the BST section at the fake '52 Mantle. It has one of the newer flips with the PSA hologram. Real slab. Real flip. Fake card. Y'all keep drinking that PSA Kool Aid.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Say what you want about SGC, but these fake cards aren't turning up in SGC slabs. And I know SGC cards don't bring as much money as a PSA counterpart card does, but a fake SGC 96 '86 Jordan or a fake SGC 50 '52 Mantle would still bring a scammer pretty big money. So, ask yourself, why you aren't finding these cards in SGC holders? It's hot outside. How about another big, tall glass of Kool Aid? Cherry or grape?

[ezez420]

Peter or myself arent drinking anything. More people should educate themselves.

I am not involved with any of this stuff. So Hunky Dory you are dead wrong. You are also very wrong how you approached this situation by getting scammed and posting the info of the person who scammed you...with his fake name and all. Now that you have done that, I am sure he will change his number again, get a new ebay id, change his name, reholder your ruth that you sent to him and move on to another victim. And if you were truly working with the federal government I am sure they would have told you to keep your trap shut. So yeah I am calling you out for being a bonehead.

[Eric72]

Wait, let me get this straight.

1. Someone scammed you out of a Goudey Babe Ruth
2. You claim that you're attempting to warn others about the scammer
3. To warn people, you listed the Ruth, a card no longer in your possession, for sale on eBay

It's rather early in the morning. I guess there is a part of your logic that I can't quite comprehend yet. Maybe some caffeine will help me figure this out.

[pherbener]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Wait, let me get this straight.

1. Someone scammed you out of a Goudey Babe Ruth
2. You claim that you're attempting to warn others about the scammer
3. To warn people, you listed the Ruth, a card no longer in your possession, for sale on eBay

It's rather early in the morning. I guess there is a part of your logic that I can't quite comprehend yet. Maybe some caffeine will help me figure this out.

I don't think the guy is selling the card. He is supposedly warning people about the seller he got the bad flips from. That being said something seems a bit off about all of this.. Here's a quote from him in another thread. " I actually spoke with the scammer and he admitted that the Jordan is fake. He claims that he is given these counterfeit cards (see other attached pics) and commissioned to scam people through eBay. He also told me he has done this numerous times and even sold a PSA 10 for $18K!!"

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=224088

So you mean to tell me that you spoke to the seller and he admitted to a random ebay buyer that he's breaking the law and gives specifics??

[TUM301]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Wait, let me get this straight.

1. Someone scammed you out of a Goudey Babe Ruth
2. You claim that you're attempting to warn others about the scammer
3. To warn people, you listed the Ruth, a card no longer in your possession, for sale on eBay

It's rather early in the morning. I guess there is a part of your logic that I can't quite comprehend yet. Maybe some caffeine will help me figure this out.

I`m with you Eric, this entire "scam" process is very confusing. The stolen PSA slabs would have been great material for a Soppranos episode though !

[irv]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Say what you want about SGC, but these fake cards aren't turning up in SGC slabs. And I know SGC cards don't bring as much money as a PSA counterpart card does, but a fake SGC 96 '86 Jordan or a fake SGC 50 '52 Mantle would still bring a scammer pretty big money. So, ask yourself, why you aren't finding these cards in SGC holders? It's hot outside. How about another big, tall glass of Kool Aid? Cherry or grape?

As most of you know, I'm a small fish in this big collector sea but based on what I have read and seen on here and other avenues/forums numerous times, I must say PSA is quickly falling out of favor with me.

I have seen cards graded way too low for what they are and cards graded way to high for what they are as well.

This resubmit thing also boggles my mind and as someone said once, PSA= "Please Submit Again" it seems to be what they are hoping for time and time again.

I have some PSA graded cards as well as a few SGC's and a couple Beckett's and I will say, I much prefer the SGC slabbed cards more than I do the PSA's.

Beckett's are also nice, and if it's true that they are nearly impossible to crack, they'll get serious consideration over PSA as well if I ever decide to submit my cards.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by irv

Beckett's are also nice, and if it's true that they are nearly impossible to crack, they'll get serious consideration over PSA as well if I ever decide to submit my cards.

I am one of the minority that actually prefers to buy in a beckett slab exactly for this reason. The plus side is they also have a good price point in vintage as not many are on my bandwagon.

The opposite is true for modern as beckett has really made a name there. I think vintage will catch up in values as more begin to mistrust PSA slabs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I am one of the minority that actually prefers to buy in a beckett slab exactly for this reason. The plus side is they also have a good price point in vintage as not many are on my bandwagon.

The opposite is true for modern as beckett has really made a name there. I think vintage will catch up in values as more begin to mistrust PSA slabs.

I have noticed a sharp dropoff in BGS cards relative to PSA. On a few rookies of 80s and 90s players I have looked at recently, a BGS 9.5 barely outsells a PSA 9, and sells for a fraction of a PSA 10.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I am one of the minority that actually prefers to buy in a beckett slab exactly for this reason. The plus side is they also have a good price point in vintage as not many are on my bandwagon.

The opposite is true for modern as beckett has really made a name there. I think vintage will catch up in values as more begin to mistrust PSA slabs.

People have been mistrusting PSA slabs for a long time and it has not hurt the registry or prices...it is that concept of something being too big to fail, I guess. In spite of all of their issues I would take a PSA graded card over a Beckett graded card every time. When I see a vintage card in a Beckett holder I immediately start looking for the alteration.

[Leon]

I got back a submission of 9 cards yesterday from BVG. Unfortunately what would have been the highest grade of them came back trimmed. To me the rest looked spot on give or take a half grade. I will continue submitting to SGC and BVG.... To me they are the most consistent. For full transparency, they are both advertisers and PSA would be welcomed as an advertiser too if they so desired.

Originally Posted by irv

As most of you know, I'm a small fish in this big collector sea but based on what I have read and seen on here and other avenues/forums numerous times, I must say PSA is quickly falling out of favor with me.

I have seen cards graded way too low for what they are and cards graded way to high for what they are as well.

This resubmit thing also boggles my mind and as someone said once, PSA= "Please Submit Again" it seems to be what they are hoping for time and time again.

I have some PSA graded cards as well as a few SGC's and a couple Beckett's and I will say, I much prefer the SGC slabbed cards more than I do the PSA's.

Beckett's are also nice, and if it's true that they are nearly impossible to crack, they'll get serious consideration over PSA as well if I ever decide to submit my cards.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Say what you want about SGC, but these fake cards aren't turning up in SGC slabs.

It's hot outside. How about another big, tall glass of Kool Aid? Cherry or grape?

probably for the same reason they dont fake seiko watches?

not knocking sgc, just saying. if your goal is to scam, youre prolly gonna roll w/ the company w the highest prices realized.

but if they wanted to and w a nominal cost, they could very easily replicate a sgc holder. china.

its not like sgc slabs are made of some special plastic.


good on the kool-aid, but if ya got a wild cherry capri sun...snag me one of those, please.

[begsu1013]

and there is a way to protect yourself.

downside: it benefits psa.

sucks, but whats another few bucks to sleep well on a major purchase?

and yes, i realize you shouldnt have to.

but that still doesnt mean it doesnt make sense to just go ahead and do it to add another level of protection.



upside: when selling, you have paperwork in hand from psa to show any perspective buyers that you yourself had the card reverified by them.


and agree wholeheartedly on the notion of them scanning cards and adding it to thier cert verification page.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

and there is a way to protect yourself.

downside: it benefits psa.

sucks, but whats another few bucks to sleep well on a major purchase?

and yes, i realize you shouldnt have to.

but that still doesnt mean it doesnt make sense to just go ahead and do it to add another level of protection.



upside: when selling, you have paperwork in hand from psa to show any perspective buyers that you yourself had the card reverified by them.


and agree wholeheartedly on the notion of them scanning cards and adding it to thier cert verification page.

I've never heard of this. I don't see " Verify holder" as an option on their submission form. Would it fall under "Review"? What kind of " paperwork" do they send you that essentially says we examined the card in the holder and it is our holder? The card , in holder with a grade IS their verification. Tell me about this paperwork, I've never seen it mentioned before.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

probably for the same reason they dont fake seiko watches?

Oh yes they do!! The Chinese knock off's are very good fakes..........

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Oh yes they do!! The Chinese knock off's are very good fakes..........

seem pretty excited there.

and yes, they also fake hanes tshirts and rubbers.

but you do see my point, correct?

with china and their artistry of replication, theres not too many things that cant be replicated these days.

and an sgc holder certainly isnt one of them.

if graded cards were as popular as watches, tshirts and rubbers there would definitely be fakes of just about every brand and a much more rampant number of crooks doing it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

probably for the same reason they dont fake seiko watches?

not knocking sgc, just saying. if your goal is to scam, youre prolly gonna roll w/ the company w the highest prices realized.

but if they wanted to and w a nominal cost, they could very easily replicate a sgc holder. china.

its not like sgc slabs are made of some special plastic.


good on the kool-aid, but if ya got a wild cherry capri sun...snag me one of those, please.

You totally missed my point. As Greg already mentioned, yes, there are indeed fake Seiko watches. Heck, there are fake Timex watches. Wanna buy one? Here you go...

http://www.replicafree.net/timex-watches.html

I already told you why you don't see these fake cards in SGC slabs and it has nothing to do with the fact that a PSA card will outsell it's SGC counterpart. If you want to ignore the truth, that's fine with me.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If you want to ignore the truth, that's fine with me.

please, indulge me...

what makes an sgc so unique in that it cant be replicated?

ive already explained that if graded cards were more popular that just about any company's holder would be replicated.

there's also a consensus that most of these holders are originating from one source. obviously that source decided to replicate the company w the highest prices realized.

even if it turns out to be the other idea of "an inside job", then that obviously explains why they are using psa holders.

but again, tell me why sgc holders are so superior that they cant be replicated as i just told you why they arent.

and never did get that capri sun.

[begsu1013]

dp.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, I told you recently that slabs and flips make they're way out the back door at PSA. People think I'm crazy, don't believe me or just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=218799
Post #270

OK, whatever. Don't believe it. I don't care. But look at his other thread in the BST section at the fake '52 Mantle. It has one of the newer flips with the PSA hologram. Real slab. Real flip. Fake card. Y'all keep drinking that PSA Kool Aid.

What's your evidence that this happens David? Some anonymous guy claiming some unnamed AH told him isn't exactly proof.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's your evidence that this happens David? Some anonymous guy claiming some unnamed AH told him isn't exactly proof.

Peter, the evidence is fake (or altered) cards showing up in real PSA slabs with real PSA flips. And its not a matter of the cards being switched out cards because the slabs havent been compromised.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, the evidence is fake (or altered) cards showing up in real PSA slabs with real PSA flips. And its not a matter of the cards being switched out cards because the slabs havent been compromised.

Assuming you are right about them not being compromised, how do you know they aren't having their own fabricated? This doesn't strike me as high technology, it's a piece of cheap plastic.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ironically, this email just arrived from PSA.

Just like His Airness, PSA Holders Come in Clutch

As a leader in the collectibles world, we’re devoted to
the steadfast pursuit of the most secure collectibles technology.
Our sonically-sealed, ultra-secure holders are the result of that pursuit.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Assuming you are right about them not being compromised, how do you know they aren't having their own fabricated? This doesn't strike me as high technology, it's a piece of cheap plastic.

I think its highly unlikely that someone is fabricating fake slabs AND flips. Some of these cards have the new flip with the new hologram.

Again I ask, why arent these fake cards turning up in SGC slabs? Sure, PSA outsells SGC, but a fake '52 Mantle even in an SGC slab would bring decent money.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Assuming you are right about them not being compromised, how do you know they aren't having their own fabricated? This doesn't strike me as high technology, it's a piece of cheap plastic.

+1 I would guess that fabricating counterfeit slabs would be a simple task for those so inclined.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by hunky-dory

I was recently informed by one of the major auction houses that a case of PSA slabs was stolen directly from PSA. So that could be it. It also could be an inside job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many in a case? If true this could be fun.

I don't know how many are in a case but I do know I could retire on 100 new empty PSA slabs. Wouldn't need the other stuff, just the slabs.