Importance of Provenance

[oldjudge]

To go to the other end of the spectrum, it means zero to me. Whether the card was previously owned by Mickey Mantle or Shlomo Mantle, the butcher, means little to me. I just care about the card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

To go to the other end of the spectrum, it means zero to me. Whether the card was previously owned by Mickey Mantle or Shlomo Mantle, the butcher, means little to me. I just care about the card.

Ditto to this.

[swarmee]

I paid $50 for a $2 card last week because it had Jeff Burdick's back stamp. Wanted one of those anyways, but this one was in the set I collect mainly (T51 colleges). First one I've seen with his stamp in the four years I've been collecting, so I thought it was worth it.
There are people that will pay extra for F. Scott Fitzgerald's stamped cards as well.

[drcy]

I cataloged a bunch of CDVs that belonged to Charles Dickens. I don't know about you guys, but I thought that pretty cool, even though I didn't like having to read his 900 page novels in English class.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by drcy

I cataloged a bunch of CDVs that belonged to Charles Dickens.

Are you sure they didn't actually belong to Charles Dikkens the well-known Dutch author?

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

Are you sure they didn't actually belong to Charles Dikkens the well-known Dutch author?

Have to be careful, I heard about a guy that bought the wrong Jon Voights car. Turned out to belong to a dentist, not the actor.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by drcy

I cataloged a bunch of CDVs that belonged to Charles Dickens. I don't know about you guys, but I thought that pretty cool, even though I didn't like having to read his 900 page novels in English class.

I am one-third of the way through 'David Copperfield' right now. I never read it before. Barnes and Nobles had this large group of classic books for $5.00 in store. I bought quite a few. I have read 'Great Expectations', 'A Tale of Two Cities', 'The Art of War', 'Siddartha', 'The Origin of Species' and 'The Count of Monte Cristo' so far this year. Next up is 'The Brothers Karamazov' or 'Bleak House' each 800 pages or so. The toughest read was 'The Origin of Species'.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Michael B

I am one-third of the way through 'David Copperfield' right now. I never read it before. Barnes and Nobles had this large group of classic books for $5.00 in store. I bought quite a few. I have read 'Great Expectations', 'A Tale of Two Cities', 'The Art of War', 'Siddartha', 'The Origin of Species' and 'The Count of Monte Cristo' so far this year. Next up is 'The Brothers Karamazov' or 'Bleak House' each 800 pages or so. The toughest read was 'The Origin of Species'.

The Brothers Karamazov is a great book. Dostoyevski was my favorite author, back when I used to read. The length never bothered me. Michener, on the other hand, ugh.

[GasHouseGang]

I wouldn't necessarily pay extra for a card with provenance, but I got these two for what you would normally pay for the card in this grade.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I paid $50 for a $2 card last week because it had Jeff Burdick's back stamp. Wanted one of those anyways, but this one was in the set I collect mainly (T51 colleges). First one I've seen with his stamp in the four years I've been collecting, so I thought it was worth it.
There are people that will pay extra for F. Scott Fitzgerald's stamped cards as well.

These are to two situations where provenance has mattered to me--my Burdick and Fitzgerald* cards. But, I didn't pick those up because I wanted the card but rather because I wanted something tied to the prior owner. Just like, at some point, I'll pick up a Lionel Carter card to have that in my collection.

If I was looking to purchase a Mickey Mantle card, short of having been owned by Mantle himself, I wouldn't care whether it was an original owner card, part of some find, etc.

[packs]

I just can't think of a reason why provenance would be important for something issued in the tens of thousands or perhaps even millions.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

I just can't think of a reason why provenance would be important for something issued in the tens of thousands or perhaps even millions.

Not everything was issued in huge quantities like that.

I can think of a couple instances where it could matter.

In the case of a card that's "new" or very nearly unknown. Like if someone turned up a T206 with a Hustler back. The provenance would matter since the card was listed probably by error years ago as a known back, but it's generally believed that they never existed.
Wouldn't you want to know as much as possible about where it's supposedly been since 1910?
If it's from some random guy would you trust it as much as if it came from the family of an early collector who traded at least a list with Burdick and had letters from him mentioning the card?


Or, a more common card.
Lets say you can afford and really want a nice green Cobb T206. You find one, but it was previously owned by someone who was a known card doctor.
say it's pretty high grade, maybe a 6 or 7.
How much do you trust it knowing that it was owned by someone who altered cards regularly?

[packs]

Did we ever hear anything about the provenance behind the Blue Old Mill? If provenance didn't come up then I don't see how it would apply to a Hustler backed card.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I paid $50 for a $2 card last week because it had Jeff Burdick's back stamp. Wanted one of those anyways, but this one was in the set I collect mainly (T51 colleges). First one I've seen with his stamp in the four years I've been collecting, so I thought it was worth it.
There are people that will pay extra for F. Scott Fitzgerald's stamped cards as well.

Me too. I paid a bit extra for a Burdick stamped card. IMO well worth it. I also paid up for a manufacturer file copy of a card. And there is a definite provenance factor for Topps Vault certified materials.

[nolemmings]

I don't think it's fair for me to render an opinion, since I've never been to Rhode Island.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I don't think it's fair for me to render an opinion, since I've never been to Rhode Island.

Todd-I enjoyed the line, even if no one else caught it.

[brian1961]

This morning I thought of a good example of provenance where it pertains to lineage that would have interested me. A high-grade 1952 Topps Mantle is as great as they come, but would be magnified to me if it came from the Mr. Mint find of 1985-86. That was one momentous event in hobby history. ---Brian Powell

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

To go to the other end of the spectrum, it means zero to me. Whether the card was previously owned by Mickey Mantle or Shlomo Mantle, the butcher, means little to me. I just care about the card.

This.

For Cards, it doesn’t matter to me...It matters in memorabilia, like with game used bats, for instance (where chain of ownership is sometimes vital in authenticating the piece).