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  #1  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:41 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
B. Schneid.
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It's crazy that they are even getting away with recoloring. I mean I can understand how trimming can get past the PSA graders but recoloring the back of a high dollar t206 card. How do you miss that?

See Demmitt post:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2204
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  #2  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:42 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati View Post
It's crazy that they are even getting away with recoloring. I mean I can understand how trimming can get past the PSA graders but recoloring the back of a high dollar t206 card. How do you miss that?

See Demmitt post:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2204
Conventional wisdom was always a blacklight would pick that up. I have no idea what to think.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:52 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I have no idea what to think.
Ummm...yes, you do. You just don't want to admit it.
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  #4  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:55 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Ummm...yes, you do. You just don't want to admit it.
David, do you believe David Hall, Joe Orlando and/or Steve Sloan have overtly or tacitly approved the knowing grading of altered cards, or do you think some submitters have a grader on the inside?

Let's flesh out your conspiracy theory.
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Four phrases I nave coined that sum up today's hobby:
No consequences.
Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-29-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:05 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
David, do you believe David Hall, Joe Orlando and/or Steve Sloan have overtly or tacitly approved the knowing grading of altered cards, or do you think some submitters have a grader on the inside?

Let's flesh out your conspiracy theory.
The latter.
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  #6  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:07 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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The latter.
At this point, it truly would not surprise me. In a way it would be a relief, as it would show the company as a whole wasn't as awful at this as it now is starting to seem.
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Four phrases I nave coined that sum up today's hobby:
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Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2019, 10:00 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
At this point, it truly would not surprise me. In a way it would be a relief, as it would show the company as a whole wasn't as awful at this as it now is starting to seem.
I doubt it's just one person inside. If it was, how do they assure that their inside guy gets their submission. If anything, it has to be at least two, one in receiving and one grader.

And if there's a pattern of one person always doing one customers submissions, what does it say about their internal security if that's not noticed?
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  #8  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:12 PM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
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The latter.
Me too....
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:59 PM
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I hope the industry (TPG, auctioners, etc) response will lift us above this to put us in a better spot at the end of the day.

The hobby is too big for there not to be a measured response; its make or break and their mouse trap is threatened.... I think they will build a better mousetrap to re-instill confidence in our hobby at the end of the day.

The fact that we have this forum and BO to identify bad players and force the hands of TPGs to prevent their name from being besmirched, makes me think we will come out better from this.....
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  #10  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:03 PM
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CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
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This investigation will focus on PWCC, Brent Huigens, Gary Moser and now Bobby Binder at VCP, who foolishly got himself involved with his implausible eBay story. The good news Bobby is we won’t be the ones you need to convince so start compiling those emails from eBay because I suspect you’re going to need them soon.
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  #11  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
This investigation will focus on PWCC, Brent Huigens, Gary Moser and now Bobby Binder at VCP, who foolishly got himself involved with his implausible eBay story. The good news Bobby is we won’t be the ones you need to convince so start compiling those emails from eBay because I suspect you’re going to need them soon.
I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:35 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.
+1
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:39 PM
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I think you missed a rather key player... the people who authenticated all of this crap.
I suspect it will start with Brent and Moser because that is the simplest to prove. Then they will decide if they will roll on any of the PSA guys to save their own skin as much as they possibly can.
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:52 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
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I suspect it will start with Brent and Moser because that is the simplest to prove. Then they will decide if they will roll on any of the PSA guys to save their own skin as much as they possibly can.
The PSA guys have been horrible and nasty to me at the Philly Show. And I have names. I would like to write about it I don't want another call from Leon!
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  #15  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:09 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is online now
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Believe it or not Betsy is technically correct with her definition of shilling. An owner is allowed to bid on his or her items in most, if not all states, as long as they pay if and when they win. Now many auction houses (including mine) see the ethical flaw in the law, especially as it pertains to online auctions. Hell Ebay won't let you bid on your own offerings. If you don't believe me check the UCC I believe it's somewhere around 235. Peter and I discussed this a couple years back and he was surprised to see it in black and white as I recall. Of course the gulf between legal and ethical can be a wide one...
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:13 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Believe it or not Betsy is technically correct with her definition of shilling. An owner is allowed to bid on his or her items in most, if not all states, as long as they pay if and when they win. Now many auction houses (including mine) see the ethical flaw in the law, especially as it pertains to online auctions. Hell Ebay won't let you bid on your own offerings. If you don't believe me check the UCC I believe it's somewhere around 235. Peter and I discussed this a couple years back and he was surprised to see it in black and white as I recall. Of course the gulf between legal and ethical can be a wide one...
Scott I recall a discussion about retracting that surprised me but you may well be right we discussed this too.
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Four phrases I nave coined that sum up today's hobby:
No consequences.
Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
Animal Farm grading.
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:18 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is online now
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Crap you're right, it was retracting (a related subject to be sure), however having had to study this stuff specifically to get my license I'm sure I could track down this info too!
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Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 05-29-2019 at 05:20 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:47 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
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Wowzers! Thanks Scott for being honest. I think you're on point. I'll leave it at that.

Here's a link to the UCC by state if anyone wants to check it out: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_ucc
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  #19  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:01 PM
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egbeachley egbeachley is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Conventional wisdom was always a blacklight would pick that up. I have no idea what to think.
Buy special hobby paint that doesn’t have optical brighteners added to it?
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