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#301
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I support this sentiment. I certainly won't be bidding on any more PWCC listings and I won't be buying any more PSA or BGS (let's not forget BGS has a huge part in this too) graded items. I guess I'll have to wait for a real TPG competitor to arrive and have my PC stuff regraded someday. Hopefully none are altered, but that's now unlikely. I don't have a VCP sub, but I wouldn't do any business with anyone with ties to this situation (I don't have business interactions with Leon, so don't even try it), especially after seeing the proprietor's deflection attempts. Playing dumb doesn't work. You know darn well what's happening within your own business, down to every little detail.
Last edited by sportscardtheory; 05-29-2019 at 12:08 PM. |
#302
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Quote:
He is letting all this go down on HIS forum, gotta respect him for that. Someone might want to quote this for posterity. |
#303
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So do people thing SGC is in the clear here, or is this story still unfolding and it could move to them as well?
I have mostly always bought SGC vintage and got my Ruth’s at SGc even though they traded at a discount to PSA because I always feel like PSA is a bomb ready to explode. Do people think that the PSA premium may now go away and SGc may trade at a premium? Just curious. |
#304
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Quote:
Having said that, I may be going "paleo" with my collecting, avoiding grading altogether until someone designs a grading system that addresses the myriad problems we're seeing today.
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 |
#305
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So some of the old listings that vcp basically links to supposedly had back scans deleted, and now the mob wants to throw vcp into the fire with pwcc, but not PSA. I don't see any evidence Bobby or VCP did anything wrong. Calls to cancel vcp subscriptions seem ridiculous to me.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#306
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NM
Last edited by perezfan; 05-29-2019 at 01:07 PM. |
#307
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Quote:
While it is an opportune window for SGC, I would REALLY love to see RAW trade at a premium. May never happen... but who better than us, to determine what looks best. Without "preferred" clients, severe time constraints and hoards of cards to sift through, most of us can blow the doors off those guys anyway! |
#308
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This past weekend I noticed a nice Ty Cobb pin PWCC was selling. Based on the craziness surrounding PWCC lately, it made me look a lot closer at the pin. I noticed that the back rim was an untarnished brighter silver in appearance. Thoughts on the pin? Am I being paranoid??
I decided NOT to bid on the auction. Last edited by sayheykid54; 05-29-2019 at 01:31 PM. |
#309
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Quote:
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#310
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Again for the 3rd time....
We did not remove or delete any images. |
#311
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PWCC has 51 Bowmans of Mantle & Mays as well as 53 Mantle all PSA 7's closing tonight (amongst a bunch of other stuff). Will be interesting to see if final prices are affected at all.
My guess is no. |
#312
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Yes. It seems to me the issue is with PSA. If they're letting trimmed cards through, let's focus our efforts on determining why or how this is happening. That would be my suggestion. But from what I've read most aren't holding them accountable. Let's boycott pwcc, stop accepting their advertising money, but keep using PSA. Absurd.
And Bobby yes I realize that. My post was calling into question those calling for net54 members to cancel their subscriptions to your service. You explained how your site works. I am not tech savvy enough to understand it completely but as I do understand it if any scans were deleted it would have been because Ebay or someone else had them removed. And I don't even see evidence that happened.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. Last edited by pokerplyr80; 05-29-2019 at 02:08 PM. |
#313
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The issue is a TPG system that is overvalued by customers, because it delivers results that do not even come close to matching the expectations of those customers. Your PSA 4, SGC 50/4, BVG 4, etc. may have had its grade improved through means that you are not comfortable accepting. The odds of that being true may have always been the same — but that lingering doubt has become a large black cloud thanks to the visual “before-and-afters” that first ran like a wildfire through my signed T206 collection.
How many times have we read over the past few weeks a collector attempting to calm himself by exclaiming “That’s why I never collect anything above a PSA 5!” The truth is, if you have a graded card in your collection—a card graded at any level—the technology used by the TPG to certify that card as “unaltered” to you was woefully inadequate for making that certification, and the criminals do not have a grading threshold below which they are unwilling to go. Go paleo. Collect what you like regardless of the TPG’s opinion. Try to hold onto any provenance you can grasp.
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 Last edited by T206Collector; 05-29-2019 at 02:38 PM. |
#314
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#315
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#316
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Quote:
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 |
#317
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Good golly Miss Molly.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#318
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Holy moly...doyle may be next.
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#319
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I noticed that Moser won a Johnny Lipon 53 Bowman Color from me back in 11/2018. So, I wanted to see if I can find out whether he resold it at a later date. I didn't find it but I stumbled onto this.
On 12/15/18, he won a PSA 6 version of that card at Probstein's. Click on "View Original Item". https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/362502649...2047675.l10137 Then I saw on May 9th 2019, an 8.5 version of this card sold at PWCC. Click on "View Original Item". https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/352652489...2047675.l10137 What makes me believe that they are the same card, is the stain on the back. It's on the bottom of the card just below Printed in U.S.A and running up into the stats. If I am correct, then it's not only high end cards that we need to worry about. |
#320
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There are A LOT of mid-grade cards being outed on BO as altered. You can’t hide behind a decision to collect only PSA 3s and 4s and think you’re safe.
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 Last edited by T206Collector; 05-29-2019 at 03:24 PM. |
#321
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http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/
Among other things, claims Gary shill bid his own consignments. Pretty comprehensive in scope.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-29-2019 at 03:31 PM. |
#322
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Hahahahaha!!! Now they're trying to redefine shill bidding. If you bid on your OWN FREAKING CARD, it's shill bidding.
Quote:
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#323
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And if PSA wants to have any more of my business, EVERY CARD SUBMITTED BY THESE DOCTORS needs to be removed from the certification system and refunded.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#324
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Sports Card Radio was provided data of a recent 225 card PSA submission submitted by, or on the behalf of, Moser.
135 of those cards were placed in the PWCC Marketplace 2019 Premium Auction #3. An eBay account associated with Moser, whitman111, placed a bid on 31 of the 135 cards submitted, resulting in two winning bids.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#325
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"A shill bid is a bid placed with no intent to honor "
Wrong again
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#326
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It's like hitting the daily double, winning an altered card that was shill bid.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-29-2019 at 03:40 PM. |
#327
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Unfortunately most of the other doctors left little or no paper trail, IMO. BO has named a few guys but it goes well well well beyond them.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-29-2019 at 03:41 PM. |
#328
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It's crazy that they are even getting away with recoloring. I mean I can understand how trimming can get past the PSA graders but recoloring the back of a high dollar t206 card. How do you miss that?
See Demmitt post: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2204
__________________
http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/schneids |
#329
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#330
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Quote:
Last edited by sportscardtheory; 05-29-2019 at 03:55 PM. |
#331
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Quote:
crazy... Last edited by GoCubsGo32; 05-29-2019 at 03:48 PM. |
#332
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Ummm...yes, you do. You just don't want to admit it.
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#333
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David, do you believe David Hall, Joe Orlando and/or Steve Sloan have overtly or tacitly approved the knowing grading of altered cards, or do you think some submitters have a grader on the inside?
Let's flesh out your conspiracy theory.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-29-2019 at 03:58 PM. |
#334
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Quote:
__________________
M.!.c.h.@.3.L. . H.v.n.T _____________________________ Don't believe everything you think |
#335
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I'm Glass half full
I hope the industry (TPG, auctioners, etc) response will lift us above this to put us in a better spot at the end of the day.
The hobby is too big for there not to be a measured response; its make or break and their mouse trap is threatened.... I think they will build a better mousetrap to re-instill confidence in our hobby at the end of the day. The fact that we have this forum and BO to identify bad players and force the hands of TPGs to prevent their name from being besmirched, makes me think we will come out better from this..... |
#336
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Buy special hobby paint that doesn’t have optical brighteners added to it?
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#337
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Quote:
Last edited by sportscardtheory; 05-29-2019 at 04:05 PM. |
#338
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This investigation will focus on PWCC, Brent Huigens, Gary Moser and now Bobby Binder at VCP, who foolishly got himself involved with his implausible eBay story. The good news Bobby is we won’t be the ones you need to convince so start compiling those emails from eBay because I suspect you’re going to need them soon.
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#339
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The latter.
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#340
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This is all a lot to keep up with but also part of why I came back to the board. I'm very rarely on BO but what's posted over there has been helpful. In talking to Leon yesterday many of us seem to be in the same boat in hoping our cards weren't involved in this mess. Any chance we could have a specific members only thread somewhat like the BST to solely share pics/links to the pre-war cards involved in all of this? Could be a good first step in narrowing things down on the pre-war side. I mean, for us, the difference between a 3 changed to a 4 is a big deal. Thoughts?
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#341
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At this point, it truly would not surprise me. In a way it would be a relief, as it would show the company as a whole wasn't as awful at this as it now is starting to seem.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#342
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Believe it or not Betsy is technically correct with her definition of shilling. An owner is allowed to bid on his or her items in most, if not all states, as long as they pay if and when they win. Now many auction houses (including mine) see the ethical flaw in the law, especially as it pertains to online auctions. Hell Ebay won't let you bid on your own offerings. If you don't believe me check the UCC I believe it's somewhere around 235. Peter and I discussed this a couple years back and he was surprised to see it in black and white as I recall. Of course the gulf between legal and ethical can be a wide one...
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#343
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#344
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Quote:
Last edited by egbeachley; 05-29-2019 at 04:11 PM. |
#345
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That is totally unreal. Redefining everything these days.
Last edited by jad22; 05-29-2019 at 04:12 PM. |
#346
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#347
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#348
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Crap you're right, it was retracting (a related subject to be sure), however having had to study this stuff specifically to get my license I'm sure I could track down this info too!
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 05-29-2019 at 04:20 PM. |
#349
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Thanks. It was already pointed out to me by another member. I jumped the gun on that one.
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#350
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Quote:
If not for my recent training in "cardboard forensics" by 312, Corndog and Superdan on the BO forum I would have agreed with you! |
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