Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by japhi

Latest uncovered is three known trimmers all in the same PSA sub. All cards were sold by PWCC, with PWCC as possibly the submitter.

What a great system. Sell cards that have restoration potential to a group of large dealers. Bring these cards back in house post restoration. Sub them on favourable terms. Get favourable results. Slap a HE sticker on them. Allow same dealers to shill the cards up.

Pretty incredible really, what a racket.

FOR 15 YEARS PLUS. Think about it...

And today, just another 4 K between friends...for a Sid Gordon and Alvin Chipmunk...LOL

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=354

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

FOR 15 YEARS PLUS. Think about it...

And today, just another 4 K between friends...for a Sid Gordon and Alvin Chipmunk...LOL

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=354

ya know, this scandal pisses me off as it does everyone - but - if you're spending the same amount on a 1954 Sid Gordon; as you could spend on some very attractive playing day Babe Ruth's - then you almost deserve this nonsense. I understand the appeal of graded cards. I even understand the appeal of going after specific items in a particular grade which I've done. But if you're spending thousands of dollars on a common card, that nobody would EVER forge/reprint; that's readily available for $3-$5; then you're a fool.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

ya know, this scandal pisses me off as it does everyone - but - if you're spending the same amount on a 1954 Sid Gordon; as you could spend on some very attractive playing day Babe Ruth's - then you almost deserve this nonsense. I understand the appeal of graded cards. I even understand the appeal of going after specific items in a particular grade which I've done. But if you're spending thousands of dollars on a common card, that nobody would EVER forge/reprint; that's readily available for $3-$5; then you're a fool.

+1

[japhi]

The best reveal from those blowout threads is PSA has a program where favoured dealers could sit with a grader in person and that grader would pick through the dealers cards and pull cards that would 10. Cost is 10 pee card, minimum 600 cards, and you only get slabbed 10s back.

Amazing how much of an idiot Orlando is to let these shenanigans go. What a small game they are playing, a 500mm company giving breaks to their hobby buddies. With that level of access - one on one’s with graders- pretty easy to see corruptible the process is. Imagine the influence a dealer like PWCC had been on their own grades. Or 4 sharp corners. The game is clearly rigged.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by japhi

The best reveal from those blowout threads is PSA has a program where favoured dealers could sit with a grader in person and that grader would pick through the dealers cards and pull cards that would 10. Cost is 10 pee card, minimum 600 cards, and you only get slabbed 10s back.

Amazing how much of an idiot Orlando is to let these shenanigans go. What a small game they are playing, a 500mm company giving breaks to their hobby buddies. With that level of access - one on one’s with graders- pretty easy to see corruptible the process is. Imagine the influence a dealer like PWCC had been on their own grades. Or 4 sharp corners. The game is clearly rigged.

Been saying this for months on this thread! It’s a shame most people don’t care or know. This Should he disclosed to the collecting public.... these private Invitational Meetings with graders ....WTH

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by japhi

The best reveal from those blowout threads is PSA has a program where favoured dealers could sit with a grader in person and that grader would pick through the dealers cards and pull cards that would 10. Cost is 10 pee card, minimum 600 cards, and you only get slabbed 10s back.

Amazing how much of an idiot Orlando is to let these shenanigans go. What a small game they are playing, a 500mm company giving breaks to their hobby buddies. With that level of access - one on one’s with graders- pretty easy to see corruptible the process is. Imagine the influence a dealer like PWCC had been on their own grades. Or 4 sharp corners. The game is clearly rigged.

Perhaps Joe correctly saw this as a way to lock up PSA's market domination.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Perhaps Joe correctly saw this as a way to lock up PSA's market domination.

How many guys, meaning business, dealers/auction houses, with big adds on their website and in the SMR go to these Invitationals? I’m banking on all of them. Perfect Marketing to their big submitters with large exposure.

PSA=TEFLON

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

How many guys, meaning business, dealers/auction houses, with big adds on their website and in the SMR go to these Invitationals? I’m banking on all of them. Perfect Marketing to their big submitters with large exposure.

PSA=TEFLON

I don't doubt that Jeromy Murray takes care of his insiders too. I don't know what the company formerly known as Sportscard Guaranty Company does. Hopefully less of this.

[Sean1125]

I woke up this morning to a text from a gentlemen I've dealt with in the past bringing this thread to my attention. It is not too pleasant to spend a couple hours in the morning reading false accusations and needing to study hundreds of replies via multiple sites to issue a statement.

I am quite irate because an anonymous individual has made an erroneous assumption that libels my and my companies name, assumes guilt by association, and is counterfactual.

Evan posted on the reddit thread, "There is so much misinformation in that thread that it’s entertaining." I would not call it entertaining, the words that come to mind are bothersome and alarming. The post involves me without facts, making stretch assumptions, and objectively false statements.

Invest In Baseball was hired by Cardology for the 2018 national to assess collections and market for inventory via our customer base and other means. IIB did not set up a booth and I worked the floor and out of the Cardology booth to help assess collections, ensure he was making fair deals, bring deals to the table, and help some lesser educated staff because of limited bandwidth. This buying ad is identical to the buying ads that were placed throughout the industry, sent to our email list, and was not conducted any differently than usual business other than I was hired, at a very handsome rate, to help Cardology.

I was actually extremely excited to be working with an NFL player, a Super Bowl champion at that. I am 100% sure every single person who has a business would be willing to work with someone who offers a huge advancement for your company via name association alone. Evan has always been cordial, stand-up, and follows through with his word. If it weren't for him I would not have been able to grow IIB as quickly as it did and I am eternally grateful. I make no comment on any of the accusations or assumptions made about him in the Blowout thread and only provide comment on the unfounded accusations relating to myself and IIB.

Via the anonymous posters definition, PWCC, Probstein, and COMC are all associates of Cardology-- they sold inventory. It is unwarranted to list IIB as an associate because the company was hired to work for Evan and unknowingly sold cards on consignment. I am sure there are hundreds of other vendors, auctions, and collectors who have unwittingly sold altered cards, by this posters definition he needs to research them and list them as associates.

Respectfully, I request that I be left out of this. I've mostly moved on from this industry for two years as a business and buy on the side as a hobby to populate my house and enjoy the past that brought me to where I am today.

Kind Regards,

Sean

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by japhi

The best reveal from those blowout threads is PSA has a program where favoured dealers could sit with a grader in person and that grader would pick through the dealers cards and pull cards that would 10. Cost is 10 pee card, minimum 600 cards, and you only get slabbed 10s back.

Amazing how much of an idiot Orlando is to let these shenanigans go. What a small game they are playing, a 500mm company giving breaks to their hobby buddies. With that level of access - one on one’s with graders- pretty easy to see corruptible the process is. Imagine the influence a dealer like PWCC had been on their own grades. Or 4 sharp corners. The game is clearly rigged.

10 bucks per card in the lot, or do they only charge for the cards graded? If the cards didn't get preferential treatment in the grade assigned I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this, but I'm sure they did.

There was talk on the board a while back about meetings with graders where preferred clients could argue their case when trying for a bump. This new revelation does not come as much of a surprise.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

10 bucks per card in the lot, or do they only charge for the cards graded? If the cards didn't get preferential treatment in the grade assigned I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this, but I'm sure they did.

There was talk on the board a while back about meetings with graders where preferred clients could argue their case when trying for a bump. This new revelation does not come as much of a surprise.

Ten bucks for the cards that are graded 10’s. And the grader sorts through the lot and pulls the tens. So you show up with 1000 cards, the grader goes one by one and pulls 600 that will grade 10, cost is 6k.

The whole process is preferential treatment, with no controls to prevent influence of the grader.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

10 bucks per card in the lot, or do they only charge for the cards graded? If the cards didn't get preferential treatment in the grade assigned I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this, but I'm sure they did.

There was talk on the board a while back about meetings with graders where preferred clients could argue their case when trying for a bump. This new revelation does not come as much of a surprise.

To the top part. I know PSA and SGC does this with bulk lots. You pay a flat rate per card and then pay the grading fee on the cards that meet your requirements. This is a win win for everyone if done honestly.

To the second part we had a company come on this forum a couple years ago and offer this service. Also not a bad thing if done honestly. I know I have got cards back from PSA that I knew should have had a higher grade.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

ya know, this scandal pisses me off as it does everyone - but - if you're spending the same amount on a 1954 Sid Gordon; as you could spend on some very attractive playing day Babe Ruth's - then you almost deserve this nonsense. I understand the appeal of graded cards. I even understand the appeal of going after specific items in a particular grade which I've done. But if you're spending thousands of dollars on a common card, that nobody would EVER forge/reprint; that's readily available for $3-$5; then you're a fool.

Blame the victim?

[phikappapsi]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Blame the victim?

one could see it that way. or...

caveat emptor

or

a fool and his money...

You can hate the massive fraud, and still believe some of those whom the fraud is perpetrated against are idiots. They aren't mutually exclusive in my mind.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by phikappapsi

ya know, this scandal pisses me off as it does everyone - but - if you're spending the same amount on a 1954 Sid Gordon; as you could spend on some very attractive playing day Babe Ruth's - then you almost deserve this nonsense. I understand the appeal of graded cards. I even understand the appeal of going after specific items in a particular grade which I've done. But if you're spending thousands of dollars on a common card, that nobody would EVER forge/reprint; that's readily available for $3-$5; then you're a fool.

Hear! Hear!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Brent to Johnny (to doctor to Johnny?) to Brent to PSA to Brent to victim.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=362

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Brent to Johnny (to doctor to Johnny?) to Brent to PSA to Brent to victim.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=362

Does anyone know if the individuals who discover these frauds or anyone else for that matter lets the owner ie set registry owner know they purchased altered cards? I would think that short of legal action the only way PSA will step up their game is if people start demanding refunds for monies spent on these cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Does anyone know if the individuals who discover these frauds or anyone else for that matter lets the owner ie set registry owner know they purchased altered cards? I would think that short of legal action the only way PSA will step up their game is if people start demanding refunds for monies spent on these cards.

I think they attempt to make contact. Or they were trying at one point.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Does anyone know if the individuals who discover these frauds or anyone else for that matter lets the owner ie set registry owner know they purchased altered cards? I would think that short of legal action the only way PSA will step up their game is if people start demanding refunds for monies spent on these cards.

I have messaged about 50 card owners during this scandal. Received responses back from about 5.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Brent to Johnny (to doctor to Johnny?) to Brent to PSA to Brent to victim.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=362

another day, another 5K, what fun it is to get the stuffin beat out of you. Multiply this scenario by 25-30 crooked dealers, plus all the card doctors... plus 15 years and you have a 1 billion $ fraud, IMHO.

My friend the card doctor, he taught me what to do.
My friend, the card doctor, he taught me what to say.
he said that you'll be duped, when I sing this to you..

ue e oh ah ah, ting tang walla walla bing bang....

https://youtu.be/cmjrTcYMqBM?t=63

[perezfan]

Classic.. Love the Witch Doctor!

Here’s another...

I need you to fix my card again
Turn my six into a ten
Doctor Doctor, give me the news
I need a numbered slab to come from you
Ebay’s gonna help me shill
It’s in a bad case, because of you

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLfQkHQlE8

[bbeck]

Just had a card purchased of mine from eBay by one of the alleged trimmers. He has purchased from me in the past, always nicely centered PSA 7's. The card was recently graded. I guess he must just have a great eye for bumps.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Classic.. Love the Witch Doctor!

Here’s another...

I need you to fix my card again
Turn my six into a ten
Doctor Doctor, give me the news
I need a numbered slab to come from you
Ebay’s gonna help me shill
It’s in a bad case, because of you

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLfQkHQlE8

AND today another 10K or so including this 57 Ernie Banks.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=399

A beautiful day for a ball game..."Let's Fake 2",