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  #1  
Old 11-15-2022, 08:51 AM
packs packs is offline
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Originally Posted by cgjackson222 View Post
Keith Hernandez has a higher JAWS than 10 HOF First Baseman, including Bill Terry, Harmon Killibrew, David Ortiz, Tony Perez, and Orlando Cepeda, and is a hair behind Sisler. There is more to being a first baseman than hitting Home Runs.

Keith may not be a shoe-in, but he deserves another chance at a vote. I suppose Olerud may too.

JAWS figures are what they are but do you think any GM would draft Hernandez over Terry, Killebrew, David Ortiz, Tony Perez or Orlando Cepeda?
Last edited by packs; 11-15-2022 at 08:52 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2022, 09:14 AM
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cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is offline
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JAWS figures are what they are but do you think any GM would draft Hernandez over Terry, Killebrew, David Ortiz, Tony Perez or Orlando Cepeda?
So we should base HOF nominations based on what we think GMs would do?

If I were a GM, I'd pick Keith over most of them.
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Old 11-15-2022, 09:23 AM
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I was pointing out that Hernandez is the weakest on the list and may explain why he is the one not in the HOF.
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Old 11-15-2022, 09:45 AM
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cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is offline
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I was pointing out that Hernandez is the weakest on the list and may explain why he is the one not in the HOF.
Weakest in what way, other than that you think GMs would not want him as much as the others?
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Old 11-15-2022, 10:43 AM
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Weakest in what way, other than that you think GMs would not want him as much as the others?
Weakest in that he wasn't as good as the other players on your list. Defense is a valuable skill but it's not something someone is going to get into the HOF for at first base. Shortstop, sure. Centerfield, maybe. Not first base. Hernandez's WAR is only where it is because of the points he picks up for dWAR. His offensive WAR is lower than every player on your list.

Bill Terry is closest to him but Keith Hernandez didn't hit 400 or retire with a 341 average.
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Old 11-15-2022, 10:57 AM
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Weakest in that he wasn't as good as the other players on your list. Defense is a valuable skill but it's not something someone is going to get into the HOF for at first base. Shortstop, sure. Centerfield, maybe. Not first base. Hernandez's WAR is only where it is because of the points he picks up for dWAR. His offensive WAR is lower than every player on your list.

Bill Terry is closest to him but Keith Hernandez didn't hit 400 or retire with a 341 average.
Yes, 1st base is the least important infield position, but it still matters.
Hernandez is underrated for his offensive production. For instance, he had an offensive WAR over five 3x, was a 2x Silver Slugger, and his OPS+ is 6 points higher than Perez'.
Last edited by cgjackson222; 11-15-2022 at 10:58 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2022, 11:00 AM
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You have to mash to get into the HOF at first base. Keith Hernandez did not mash. Tony Perez his over 200 more home runs than Hernandez and drove in over 600 more runs.
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Old 11-15-2022, 12:50 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Yes, 1st base is the least important infield position, but it still matters.
Hernandez is underrated for his offensive production. For instance, he had an offensive WAR over five 3x, was a 2x Silver Slugger, and his OPS+ is 6 points higher than Perez'.
"He's better than Tony Perez" is true but not a great argument, as Perez is one of the weakest 1st basemen to get in. I think with Hernandez we are talking about how he compares with other guys that don't belong in the Hall.

There was a post here a few months ago about which current 1st basemen will get elected once they are eligible. The consensus was Pujols and Cabrera will get in for sure (great insight I know), but that the next guys behind those two - Votto, Freeman and Goldschmidt - will have a hard time getting enough votes. And those guys are all a tier up from Hernandez.


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Last edited by Gorditadogg; 11-15-2022 at 12:55 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2022, 07:07 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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JAWS figures are what they are but do you think any GM would draft Hernandez over Terry, Killebrew, David Ortiz, Tony Perez or Orlando Cepeda?
Yes I do.
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