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  #1  
Old 07-21-2024, 09:54 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Disagree. Main, perhaps sole, goal is to win. Everything else is rather secondary. What you wrote sounds rather silly compared to that fundamental fact of the sport. If a pitcher realizes his team is up big and he can stay in the game but give up some runs and still get the win so the bullpen can rest, that’s valuable to a team but won’t necessarily show up in the stats. Not sure what you’re arguing here. Spahn wasn’t elite?
Oy. So a pitcher who wins 8-7 did better than one who loses 1-0? If you really think that I can't help you. Of course Spahn is elite, who said he wasn't? I am just saying it's a legitimate point to bring up park effects.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-21-2024 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 07-21-2024, 09:58 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Oy. So a pitcher who wins 8-7 did better than one who loses 1-0? If you really think that I can't help you. Of course Spahn is elite, who said he wasn't? I am just saying it's a legitimate point to bring up park effects.
The pitcher that wins 5 games 8-7 is better than the one that wins 2 games 1-0. But I am positive the stats will favor the latter.
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Old 07-21-2024, 10:01 PM
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The pitcher that wins 5 games 8-7 is better than the one that wins 2 games 1-0. But I am positive the stats will favor the latter.
A pitcher can only control how much he limits the other side. How well his own team does on any given day is a fortuity. The stats rightly focus on the former.
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Old 07-21-2024, 10:16 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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A pitcher can only control how much he limits the other side. How well his own team does on any given day is a fortuity. The stats rightly focus on the former.
You don’t think guys like Maddux and Spahn have a sense of a game and can give up a run or two but secure a win rather than go all out and have to come out of the game? I feel like they’re playing chess to your checkers.
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Old 07-22-2024, 01:02 AM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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A hypothetical pitcher who goes 25-0 but gives up an average of 10 runs a game would be a terrible pitcher, not a great one. A pitcher has very low influence on his teams scoring (today with the universal DH, he has 0 influence), only on the other teams scoring.
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Old 07-22-2024, 03:30 PM
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A hypothetical pitcher who goes 25-0 but gives up an average of 10 runs a game would be a terrible pitcher, not a great one. A pitcher has very low influence on his teams scoring (today with the universal DH, he has 0 influence), only on the other teams scoring.
Checkers player!! He knew he could give up 10 runs with no impact on the game, so he intentionally eased up so he could stay in the game and save the bullpen, don't you know?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-22-2024 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 07-22-2024, 04:26 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Checkers player!! He knew he could give up 10 runs with no impact on the game, so he intentionally eased up so he could stay in the game and save the bullpen, don't you know?
You’re right, Spahn wasn’t supremely effective at eating tons of innings and getting wins for his team.
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Old 07-22-2024, 03:34 PM
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You don’t think guys like Maddux and Spahn have a sense of a game and can give up a run or two but secure a win rather than go all out and have to come out of the game? I feel like they’re playing chess to your checkers.
No, because if you give up a run or two you don't know where that will lead. And who says you can just turn it back on if a game gets close?
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