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#1
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Seller is free to sell to whomever they want. Listing a card for sale is an invitation to field offers. There is no priority for making the first offer. They are free to pass and sell to the next offer. Buyers are not entitled to, nor should they have any right to buy a seller's card. As long as the seller is not rude about it, it is perfectly fine to say, "Sorry, but someone else had a better offer." Until a seller accepts your offer, you have no more right to the card as anyone else.
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#2
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__________________
. Infuriating entitled old men since 2022...the eBay Authenticity Guarantee. #itouchmycards |
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#3
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Technically and legally, a posting for sale is an invitation for offers, even though the post didn't say it. It is legally implied. A sale is a contract between two people. A contract requires offer and acceptance. So there has to be an offer. Even if a person isn't willing to negotiate, a listing with a price is not an offer. The buyer always makes the offer in contract law. The seller always accepts. When you go to walmart, their price is not the offer. It is technically an invitation to hear offers, even if they will only accept the price as marked. When you check out, you are making an offer to purchase at the listed price. When they take your money, they are accepting your offer. I don't really have time to explain all the nuance of contract law, but that's the gist. Which is why I used the term offer. It's a legal term that applies even if the seller wasn't open to negotiate. But it's important to understand so people don't mistakenly think that they have a right to the item just because they agree to the listed price. They don't. They can just make an offer to pay that price. Seller has no obligation to accept every offer to pay their price, even if they are first.
Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-22-2025 at 09:47 AM. |
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#4
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__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 09:52 AM. |
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#5
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I mean it’s irrelevant since I sold the cards to the first person who asked for it which was 30mins before the OP Dm’d me and posted on the thread. Which I told him through DM’s. He wasn’t even in 2nd Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by maniac_73; 02-22-2025 at 10:04 AM. |
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#6
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I see no reason to get upset by a seller exercising his right. If it's proper etiquette to require a seller to accept the first offer (which I disagree with), it should also be proper etiquette to not whine when the seller doesn't sell to you. That's a bigger breach of etiquette to me.
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#7
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Quote:
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 10:15 AM. |
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#8
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#9
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Correct and that’s what I did. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#10
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As people living in an actual community, we go above and beyond -- and sometimes even break -- the stated law all the time. |
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#11
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On the stock market sellers "offer" stock at a certain price. Buyers can take the offerings or "bid" a lower price. Any sellers are then free to hit the bid. Stock prices are therefore always in a state of unstable equilibrium, i.e. a stock's current price is where there's an equal amount of supply and demand but this can change at any moment.
__________________
That government governs best that governs least. Last edited by Balticfox; 02-23-2025 at 11:08 AM. |
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#12
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Lawyers think their terminolgy through. Unfortunately, most others don't. ![]() P.S. It has nothing to do with terminology, as offer means the same in both circumstances. It's about application of that terminology. And the principle that a seller gives an invitation to offers when they sell something, the buyer makes an offer, and the seller chooses to accept, was not only well thought out, it was developed, and has been a longstanding principle, for hundreds and hundreds of years. It just works. The "etiquette" put forth here only works in a perfect world, and in spite of the delusion of some people, even a small community like this is not a perfect world. Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-23-2025 at 06:58 AM. |
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#13
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I'm curious how people on both sides of the issue feel about this situation:
A potential buyer posts a claim in a B/S/T thread at the asking price and sends a PM at that time. Before the seller responds, they get an offer from another member offering more than the asking price. Neither buyer is objectionable to the seller. They end up taking the higher (later) offer simply for the money. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily bear any ill will toward the seller in that situation. And yet, if I were the seller in such a situation, I would feel guilty not taking the first offer. |
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#14
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#15
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We aren't talking about a kidney for transplant - we're talking about highly non-essential collectibles. |
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#16
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I'm not a lawyer but your explanation makes perfect sense to me - some people are never going to be convinced of anything, though.
Also, the scenario of preventing the blind kid diving into the empty pool seems like a comically bad analogy for the selling of a sports card.... Quote:
Last edited by timn1; 02-23-2025 at 01:18 PM. |
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#17
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Imagine going to Walmart to buy eggs. You put a carton of eggs in your shopping cart and bring it to the register to check out. When you get to the register, the store manager decides not to accept your offer to purchase the eggs at the price stamped on the price tag. Instead, he takes the eggs from your cart and gives it to the lady behind you in line. And he accepts her offer to purchase instead. Not sure how that would play out in your community, but I know how it would play out in mine. The law doesn't impose a duty on Walmart to accept offers to purchase from the first customer who shows up with an offer at the stated price. But Walmart does it anyway. |
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#18
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As a lawyer who has negotiated multimillion dollar deals and is pretty well versed in contract law, I have to disagree with some of the posts on this thread. If a post is made (such as the one made here) that advertises specific cards for sale and that post includes the material terms of the sale, which besides a description of the item for sale, typically includes the sale price including shipping and handling, and the method of payment, then that is the offer, and the first to accept those terms is the rightful buyer and has, in layman’s terms, “first dibs.” Absent a good reason, an individual cannot simply choose whom to sell to.
Greg |
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#19
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In a BST post, who is the offeree? For an offer to be binding upon acceptance, you need an offeree, as I understand it. Otherwise, like an advertisement, it's an invitation to treat/invitation to bargain. The specificity of the post is not the point.
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-25-2025 at 12:15 AM. |
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#20
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Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-25-2025 at 08:33 AM. |
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#21
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Fisher v. Bell (1961) and Partridge v. Crittenden (1968) set forth the longstanding principle that posting or advertising an item for sale is an "invitation to treat" and not an "offer to sell." The cases you are referring to are Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co (1893) and All Phases of Services Ltd v Johnson (2014). They suggest that what is usually an invitation to treat can become an offer to sell IF the advertisment clearly indicates and intent to be bound, and the intentions of both parties are clear and agreed upon, demonstrated through the conduct of the parties involved. So as I said, posting a card for sale, with a price, is a invitation to treat and not an offer UNLESS the listing clearly states that the first person to accept will get the card. |
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#22
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. .
__________________
Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com |
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#23
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Last edited by gunboat82; 02-25-2025 at 11:29 AM. Reason: typo |
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#24
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Some real estate transactions involve millions of dollars. Why don't we hear of widespread lawsuits, and why would the transaction price ever be higher than the list price? According to you, first buyer to offer full ask gets it, period. No need for him to go above that figure, and futile for a subsequent offer. Or does the law trteat real estate as a separate animal (and if so, why?) |
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#25
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This statement is so far off based it isn't funny. It has no basis in contract law and is false. Material terms being included in a sales listing does not turn it into an offer. It must also include a clear statement of intent to be bound. Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-26-2025 at 02:06 PM. |
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#26
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__________________
That government governs best that governs least. Last edited by Balticfox; 02-23-2025 at 10:52 PM. |
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#27
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Exactly - until a seller accepts a definite offer that you made him, he can sell to whomever he wants - If multiple cards are involved, it might make all the sense in the world to sell to someone willing to by more than one, even if their offer on "your" card might be lower. |
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#28
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I'll always post "I'll take it" in the thread if I'm paying full price and send a pm to the seller. Puts a time stamp on the sale (if I'm first) and alerts fellow members. It also gives other members the chance to post "I'll be backup". If I'm offering below list I'll just post "pm sent" and assume the card is fair game until the seller comes to a deal with me or another member. - |
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#29
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Quote:
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 01:45 PM. |
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#30
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Absolutely. There are some people I don't want to do business with, and I don't care what supposed etiquette suggests, I shouldn't have to. It's just not worth it to deal with some people.
Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-22-2025 at 01:59 PM. |
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#31
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![]() I agree and have been on this forum several years. There are 100% members I would not sell a card to for several times my asking price. I have even straight up told 3 members I will never sell them a card. To be clear this is an extremely rare thing. I have had easily 1000 transactions on here with only a handful being bad. Last edited by bnorth; 02-22-2025 at 03:04 PM. |
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#32
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Every quarter, we have a Free Pet Food Pantry behind the local mall. Hundreds of vehicles line up surrounding the entire parking lot....some arriving several hours ahead of the 8AM start time.
Last year, one person finally got to the loading spot and asked what the line was all about...they did not even know...just couldn't resist the possibility of something FREE. Oh - as far as our current discussion, I don't have anything to add; just wanted to participate. .
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente Last edited by clydepepper; 02-22-2025 at 03:53 PM. |
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#33
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B/S/T in my opinion is great and filled with members who treat each other with fairness and respect. |
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#34
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Maybe I'm wrong, but there has seemed to me to be an unwritten Net54 rule that "the first person to claim an item for sale in the BST gets it."
Unless the seller has had bad experiences with that buyer in the past (or has heard about such from others) or is concerned that the buyer is a bot or something, why wouldn't one sell to the first to claim?
__________________
_ Successful transactions with: Natswin2019, ParachromBleu, Cmount76, theuclakid, tiger8mush, shammus, jcmtiger, oldjudge, coolshemp, joejo20, Blunder19, ibechillin33, t206kid, helfrich91, Dashcol, philliesfan, alaskapaul3, Natedog, Kris19, frankbmd, tonyo, Baseball Rarities, Thromdog, T2069bk, t206fix, jakebeckleyoldeagleeye, Casey2296, rdeversole, brianp-beme, seablaster, twalk, qed2190, Gorditadogg, LuckyLarry, tlhss, Cory, zizek |
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#35
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Could not agree more with Phil. Just look at my signature below. I wouldn't have the modest collection I have without net54 and the B/S/T.l
__________________
James Ingram Successful net54 purchases from/trades with: Tere1071 (twice), Bocabirdman (5 times), 8thEastVB, GoldenAge50s, IronHorse2130, Kris19 (twice), G1911, dacubfan, sflayank, Smanzari, bocca001, eliminator, ejstel, lampertb, rjackson44 (twice), Jason19th, Cmvorce, CobbSpikedMe, Harliduck, donmuth, HercDriver, Huck, theshleps, horzverti, ALBB, lrush |
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#36
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This is very true. I've had MANY transactions with buying, selling, and trading and have never had an issue.
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. Last edited by Fred; 02-22-2025 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Adding another quote |
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#37
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#38
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__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land ![]() https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. ![]() |
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#39
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I love Net54’s message feature UI. My heart nearly skips a beat when it pops up.
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#40
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#41
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#42
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#43
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BST is still a great way to buy some really nice stuff. I like it.
Last edited by Fuddjcal; 02-27-2025 at 09:09 PM. |
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#44
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"BST is still a great way to buy some really nice stuff. I like it"
__________________
My Monster Progess Complete Set......: 238 / 520 : 45% HOF Cards..........: 009 / 076 : 12% Southern League.: 000 / 048 : 00% Minor League......: 055 / 086 : 41% Portrait Cards......: 077 / 180 : 43% Horizontal Cards.: 000 / 006 : 00% |
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#45
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__________________
Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com |
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#46
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I have a few 1939 Play Ball cards...Joe DiMaggio, Hank Greenberg. So far, the Ted Williams has eluded me. That one is primo!
__________________
James Ingram Successful net54 purchases from/trades with: Tere1071 (twice), Bocabirdman (5 times), 8thEastVB, GoldenAge50s, IronHorse2130, Kris19 (twice), G1911, dacubfan, sflayank, Smanzari, bocca001, eliminator, ejstel, lampertb, rjackson44 (twice), Jason19th, Cmvorce, CobbSpikedMe, Harliduck, donmuth, HercDriver, Huck, theshleps, horzverti, ALBB, lrush |
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#47
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Which raises a related point. If someone wants to complain publicly about another member/transaction, should they be required to identify it?
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. |
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