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#1
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__________________
. Infuriating entitled old men since 2022...the eBay Authenticity Guarantee. #itouchmycards |
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#2
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Technically and legally, a posting for sale is an invitation for offers, even though the post didn't say it. It is legally implied. A sale is a contract between two people. A contract requires offer and acceptance. So there has to be an offer. Even if a person isn't willing to negotiate, a listing with a price is not an offer. The buyer always makes the offer in contract law. The seller always accepts. When you go to walmart, their price is not the offer. It is technically an invitation to hear offers, even if they will only accept the price as marked. When you check out, you are making an offer to purchase at the listed price. When they take your money, they are accepting your offer. I don't really have time to explain all the nuance of contract law, but that's the gist. Which is why I used the term offer. It's a legal term that applies even if the seller wasn't open to negotiate. But it's important to understand so people don't mistakenly think that they have a right to the item just because they agree to the listed price. They don't. They can just make an offer to pay that price. Seller has no obligation to accept every offer to pay their price, even if they are first.
Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-22-2025 at 09:47 AM. |
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#3
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__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 09:52 AM. |
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#4
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I mean it’s irrelevant since I sold the cards to the first person who asked for it which was 30mins before the OP Dm’d me and posted on the thread. Which I told him through DM’s. He wasn’t even in 2nd Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by maniac_73; 02-22-2025 at 10:04 AM. |
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#5
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I see no reason to get upset by a seller exercising his right. If it's proper etiquette to require a seller to accept the first offer (which I disagree with), it should also be proper etiquette to not whine when the seller doesn't sell to you. That's a bigger breach of etiquette to me.
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#6
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__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 10:15 AM. |
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#7
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#8
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Imagine if a seller made this explicit, how would it go over? For sale 1933 Goudey #53 Babe Ruth PSA 3 12K. Please note that I have the right to sell to whoever I want and being the first to say I'll take it does not mean I will sell to you.
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 10:33 AM. |
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#9
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Correct and that’s what I did. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#10
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Yes, was not implying otherwise, just transitioned into a more general discussion.
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-22-2025 at 10:31 AM. |
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#11
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As people living in an actual community, we go above and beyond -- and sometimes even break -- the stated law all the time. |
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#12
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On the stock market sellers "offer" stock at a certain price. Buyers can take the offerings or "bid" a lower price. Any sellers are then free to hit the bid. Stock prices are therefore always in a state of unstable equilibrium, i.e. a stock's current price is where there's an equal amount of supply and demand but this can change at any moment.
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That government governs best that governs least. Last edited by Balticfox; 02-23-2025 at 11:08 AM. |
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#13
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Lawyers think their terminolgy through. Unfortunately, most others don't. ![]() P.S. It has nothing to do with terminology, as offer means the same in both circumstances. It's about application of that terminology. And the principle that a seller gives an invitation to offers when they sell something, the buyer makes an offer, and the seller chooses to accept, was not only well thought out, it was developed, and has been a longstanding principle, for hundreds and hundreds of years. It just works. The "etiquette" put forth here only works in a perfect world, and in spite of the delusion of some people, even a small community like this is not a perfect world. Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-23-2025 at 06:58 AM. |
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#14
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I'm curious how people on both sides of the issue feel about this situation:
A potential buyer posts a claim in a B/S/T thread at the asking price and sends a PM at that time. Before the seller responds, they get an offer from another member offering more than the asking price. Neither buyer is objectionable to the seller. They end up taking the higher (later) offer simply for the money. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily bear any ill will toward the seller in that situation. And yet, if I were the seller in such a situation, I would feel guilty not taking the first offer. |
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#15
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#16
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![]() I do! For the listing price not to be treated as a firm offer to sell at that price is absurd. And you'll find it very difficult to find any stock broker who does not agree with me. Offer/Ask=the Price at which a Seller agrees to Sell. Bid=the Price at which a Buyer agrees to Buy.
__________________
That government governs best that governs least. Last edited by Balticfox; 02-23-2025 at 10:51 PM. |
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#17
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We aren't talking about a kidney for transplant - we're talking about highly non-essential collectibles. |
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#18
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Man people choose some weird hills to die on here ...
__________________
__________________ � Collecting Indianapolis-related pre-war and rare regionals, Jim Thorpe, and other vintage thru '80s � Successful deals with Kingcobb, Harford20, darwinbulldog, iwantitiwinit, helfrich91, kaddyshack, Marckus99, D. Bergin, Commodus the Great, Moonlight Graham, orioles70, adoo1, Nilo, JollyElm, DJCollector1, angolajones, timn1, jh691626, NiceDocter, h2oya311, orioles93, thecapeleague, gkrodg00, no10pin, Scon0072, cmoore330, Luke, wawazat, zizek |
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#19
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I'm not a lawyer but your explanation makes perfect sense to me - some people are never going to be convinced of anything, though.
Also, the scenario of preventing the blind kid diving into the empty pool seems like a comically bad analogy for the selling of a sports card.... Quote:
Last edited by timn1; 02-23-2025 at 01:18 PM. |
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#20
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Imagine going to Walmart to buy eggs. You put a carton of eggs in your shopping cart and bring it to the register to check out. When you get to the register, the store manager decides not to accept your offer to purchase the eggs at the price stamped on the price tag. Instead, he takes the eggs from your cart and gives it to the lady behind you in line. And he accepts her offer to purchase instead. Not sure how that would play out in your community, but I know how it would play out in mine. The law doesn't impose a duty on Walmart to accept offers to purchase from the first customer who shows up with an offer at the stated price. But Walmart does it anyway. |
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#21
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__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. |
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#22
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You are trying to hard to justify pointless outrage over a seller's rights. |
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#23
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__________________
RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH WORTHLESS NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Last edited by frankbmd; 02-24-2025 at 04:56 PM. |
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#24
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As a lawyer who has negotiated multimillion dollar deals and is pretty well versed in contract law, I have to disagree with some of the posts on this thread. If a post is made (such as the one made here) that advertises specific cards for sale and that post includes the material terms of the sale, which besides a description of the item for sale, typically includes the sale price including shipping and handling, and the method of payment, then that is the offer, and the first to accept those terms is the rightful buyer and has, in layman’s terms, “first dibs.” Absent a good reason, an individual cannot simply choose whom to sell to.
Greg |
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#25
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In a BST post, who is the offeree? For an offer to be binding upon acceptance, you need an offeree, as I understand it. Otherwise, like an advertisement, it's an invitation to treat/invitation to bargain. The specificity of the post is not the point.
__________________
Four phrases I have coined that sum up today's hobby: No consequences. Stuff trumps all. The flip is the commoodity. Animal Farm grading. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-25-2025 at 12:15 AM. |
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#26
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Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-25-2025 at 08:33 AM. |
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#27
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"eBay sellers have control over who can bid on and buy their items. You can block individual buyers or set buyer requirements based on specific criteria.
If you’ve had an issue with a buyer and don’t want them to purchase or bid on your items, you can add them to your Blocked buyers list. They'll be unable to place bids or buy from you until you remove them from the list."
__________________
My Monster Progess Complete Set......: 238 / 520 : 45% HOF Cards..........: 009 / 076 : 12% Southern League.: 000 / 048 : 00% Minor League......: 055 / 086 : 41% Portrait Cards......: 077 / 180 : 43% Horizontal Cards.: 000 / 006 : 00% |
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#28
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Fisher v. Bell (1961) and Partridge v. Crittenden (1968) set forth the longstanding principle that posting or advertising an item for sale is an "invitation to treat" and not an "offer to sell." The cases you are referring to are Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co (1893) and All Phases of Services Ltd v Johnson (2014). They suggest that what is usually an invitation to treat can become an offer to sell IF the advertisment clearly indicates and intent to be bound, and the intentions of both parties are clear and agreed upon, demonstrated through the conduct of the parties involved. So as I said, posting a card for sale, with a price, is a invitation to treat and not an offer UNLESS the listing clearly states that the first person to accept will get the card. |
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#29
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. .
__________________
Leon Luckey www.luckeycards.com |
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#30
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I have been on both sides of this dilemna on the bst. There have been atleast 2-3 occasions where I underpriced cards significantly and they sold quickly...and I honored the prices as it was MY FAULT.
Additionally I recall a time where I won an autographed pete rose kahns weiner card on the auction page here...at a bargain price. The seller attempted to reneg as he was not happy with the selling price. The net54 goonsquad backed me up and the seller was "encouraged" to honor the deal. 50 shades of grey? |
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#31
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Can buyers also back out of a deal they agreed to? |
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#32
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Last edited by gunboat82; 02-25-2025 at 11:29 AM. Reason: typo |
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#33
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Some real estate transactions involve millions of dollars. Why don't we hear of widespread lawsuits, and why would the transaction price ever be higher than the list price? According to you, first buyer to offer full ask gets it, period. No need for him to go above that figure, and futile for a subsequent offer. Or does the law trteat real estate as a separate animal (and if so, why?) |
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Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-25-2025 at 06:12 PM. |
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#36
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This statement is so far off based it isn't funny. It has no basis in contract law and is false. Material terms being included in a sales listing does not turn it into an offer. It must also include a clear statement of intent to be bound. Last edited by OhioLawyerF5; 02-26-2025 at 02:06 PM. |
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#37
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__________________
That government governs best that governs least. Last edited by Balticfox; 02-23-2025 at 10:52 PM. |
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